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> Yes, I'm perfectly aware we propped up dictatorships and overthrew governments, but I'm also aware of the fact that there were massive protests in the streets

> Yes, I'm perfectly aware we propped up dictatorships and overthrew governments, but I'm also aware of the fact that there were massive protests in the streets. While I generally agree with you, but there's a false choice presented here. I don't think the massive protests did anything in regards to foreign policy. And for most Latin American countries that the US has traditionally been doing whatever it wants to - there's not even an avenue for them to recourse. "and often are, esp. if you can get the US public opinion on your side" is an impossible ask that basically equates to no recourse in most situations. So for those countries that do not fall inside the protection and alliance of the United States, China presents a true recourse, it's also true for the reverse.

no_wizard 4y ago
There's been alot of changes to US foreign policy because of public pressure. I think the Cuba embargo being softened under President Obama (as well as his official state visit) was a huge step in the right direction and can be traced to public pressure on normalizing relations with Cuba. The trade agreements across Latin America lifted millions out of poverty (though results have been lopsided at home) Billions in foreign aid[0][1] to Latin America since the 90s Billions in Foreign Aid to Africa since the 90s Numerous laws passed that criminalize foreign corruption practices (you can indeed hold corporations responsible for corruption, though not a perfect process) Trade Treaties (which we have a history of honoring) [0]: I am speaking of non military aid specifically, I'm excluding military aid in these numbers [1]: Crucially, in most instances, this aid isn't given to governments directly that have proven human rights abuses, but instead directed to NGOs and non profits (see https://harvardpolitics.com/debunking-myths-foreign-aid/ https://harvardpolitics.com/debunking-myths-foreign-aid/)
- bigbillheck 4y ago
  > There's been alot of changes to US foreign policy because of public pressure. I think the Cuba embargo being softened under President Obama (as well as his official state visit) was a huge step in the right direction and can be traced to public pressure on normalizing relations with Cuba. How'd that work out since he left office?
  - no_wizard 4y ago
    Expansion: https://www.state.gov/biden-administration-expands-support-to-the-cuban-people/ https://www.state.gov/biden-administration-expands-support-t... More normalized relations, even under Trump
    - bigbillheck 4y ago
      Seems remarkably fragile: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-cuba-relations#chapter-title-0-6 https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-cuba-relations#chapter-t...
      - reducesuffering 4y ago
        US Cuba relations simply comes down to a small segment of US society called Cuban-Americans in Florida. Florida is a massive swing state providing a huge amount of electoral votes. As it currently stands, Republicans need a majority in Florida to have a chance at winning the Presidency. Cuban-Americans are the most opposed to normalizing relations. This is why Trump and Republicans push against normalizing relations, so they can get the Cuban-American block and win Florida. Democrats have to walk a fine line. Even when normalizing relations is the right thing, doing the opposite is what wins you the US presidential election.

no_wizard 4y ago

There's been alot of changes to US foreign policy because of public pressure. I think the Cuba embargo being softened under President Obama (as well as his official state visit) was a huge step in the right direction and can be traced to public pressure on normalizing relations with Cuba. The trade agreements across Latin America lifted millions out of poverty (though results have been lopsided at home) Billions in foreign aid[0][1] to Latin America since the 90s Billions in Foreign Aid to Africa since the 90s Numerous laws passed that criminalize foreign corruption practices (you can indeed hold corporations responsible for corruption, though not a perfect process) Trade Treaties (which we have a history of honoring) [0]: I am speaking of non military aid specifically, I'm excluding military aid in these numbers [1]: Crucially, in most instances, this aid isn't given to governments directly that have proven human rights abuses, but instead directed to NGOs and non profits (see https://harvardpolitics.com/debunking-myths-foreign-aid/ https://harvardpolitics.com/debunking-myths-foreign-aid/)

bigbillheck 4y ago
> There's been alot of changes to US foreign policy because of public pressure. I think the Cuba embargo being softened under President Obama (as well as his official state visit) was a huge step in the right direction and can be traced to public pressure on normalizing relations with Cuba. How'd that work out since he left office?
- no_wizard 4y ago
  Expansion: https://www.state.gov/biden-administration-expands-support-to-the-cuban-people/ https://www.state.gov/biden-administration-expands-support-t... More normalized relations, even under Trump
  - bigbillheck 4y ago
    Seems remarkably fragile: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-cuba-relations#chapter-title-0-6 https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-cuba-relations#chapter-t...
    - reducesuffering 4y ago
      US Cuba relations simply comes down to a small segment of US society called Cuban-Americans in Florida. Florida is a massive swing state providing a huge amount of electoral votes. As it currently stands, Republicans need a majority in Florida to have a chance at winning the Presidency. Cuban-Americans are the most opposed to normalizing relations. This is why Trump and Republicans push against normalizing relations, so they can get the Cuban-American block and win Florida. Democrats have to walk a fine line. Even when normalizing relations is the right thing, doing the opposite is what wins you the US presidential election.