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> “A small minority has tried to weaponize this tragedy to advance a narrative about a crime wave that just isn’t borne out by the data in San Francisco,” Kevin

> “A small minority has tried to weaponize this tragedy to advance a narrative about a crime wave that just isn’t borne out by the data in San Francisco,” Kevin Benedicto, a police commissioner and lawyer, said on Thursday. At a commission meeting earlier in the week, Mr. Benedicto complained that some on social media “are exploiting this horrific incident for political gain.” Note it'd basically be their job to lower that number, so no wonder they're incentivized to feign it's not an issue. And typical lawyer speak is "That didn't happen, and if it did we didnt cause it, and if it did happen and we caused it then it's not our fault" it prototypical legalese (not they're a lawyer too) Anecdata here, but after reporting 2 crimes in SF and hearing the police do nothing about it, I stopped reporting. I suspect their data is entirely broken by underreporting. FWIW I've also anecdotally heard, and observed similar in Austin which, for example, their roads feel more like being in a MadMax movie than orderly transportation.

kevingadd 4y ago
Crime is always at record lows when we ask police why they aren't doing their jobs, and crime is suddenly an urgent crisis when the police department comes to taxpayers to ask for another pay bump and more equipment.
- guelo 4y ago
  The quote is from a police commissioner, not the police. SF's police commission is a civilian oversight board over the police. They do not have incentive to downplay crime or to increase police pay.
  - shuckles 4y ago
    The SF police commission members definitely have an incentive to downplay crime: if they thought crime was a problem, they wouldn't have been nominated to the commission! (The Board of Supervisors, for example, recently pulled a political maneuver to extend the term of a commission member who effectively wants to dismantle the police force before they would lose the votes to do so: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-mayor-s-office-blasts-Supervisor-Aaron-17644090.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-mayor-s-offi...).
    - birdyrooster 4y ago
      Straw man. One can (soundly) believe crime is a problem without believing police are the only solution to that crime.
      - shuckles 4y ago
        In theory yes, but the specific politics of police abolition mean it’s hard to get votes to defund the police if the public thinks crime is a problem. This is why the same politicians claiming to defund the police in 2020 and asking for more policing in 2023. There are very few electeds who argue both that crime is a growing problem and we should reallocate budgets away from policing.
TeeMassive 4y ago
> “A small minority has tried to weaponize this tragedy to advance a narrative about a crime wave that just isn’t borne out by the data in San Francisco,” Kevin Benedicto, a police commissioner and lawyer, said on Thursday. At a commission meeting earlier in the week, Mr. Benedicto complained that some on social media “are exploiting this horrific incident for political gain.” When someone makes spiteful accusations based on thin air it usually is a based on a reflection of themselves; AKA confession through projection. Who usually weaponizes tragedies about crime waves? Who usually misuses or misreport the city's crime data? Who usually complains on social media for political gain?
- colpabar 4y ago
  The answer to all three of your questions is “anyone who thinks they’ll benefit from doing so.” To claim any of those things are unique to one group is ridiculous.
- asveikau 4y ago
  I agree with Mr. Benedicto. I think all the tough on crime shit doesn't work and it's a huge distraction from solving issues in San Francisco. Our recall of the district attorney was a huge waste of time. We now have a DA who has the mayor's approval and the support of the tough on crime jackals and nothing has changed, actually people say it's gotten worse since then. Because as recall opponents have said from the start, the causes of crime are more complicated than who the district attorney is. That's not projection, that's being pissed off at political misinformation. It's a line straight out of Trump speeches, "carnage in our cities" and all that, it isn't reality based and it helps no one.
  - shuckles 4y ago
    Tough on crime policies can mean a lot of things, but more police officers on the streets definitely improve both crime rates and the perception of safety. So does higher rates of clearance and prosecution. This is not a controversial fact in research. The question is always whether it's worth the cost, since police departments are very expensive.
shuckles 4y ago
A single Target downtown accidentally started reporting all shoplifting incidents and _tripled_ the citywide rate: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/shoplifting-data-Target-Walgreens-16647769.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/shoplifting-data-Targ... A teacher was beaten deaf by one of their students at a middle school and was stopped from reporting the assault to the police: https://missionlocal.org/2022/04/total-meltdown-at-everett-middle-school/ https://missionlocal.org/2022/04/total-meltdown-at-everett-m... The local crime statistics are not reliable. Even homicides, which tend to be hard to underreport, should be used very carefully since 600+ people die every year from "drug overdose" which is not categorized as a homicide but very well should be.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Data that can be manipulated will be manipulated; especially if there's power/money on the line. Even things like hospitals reporting stabbings can be manipulated, intentionally or otherwise; if "intentional stabbing" requires reporting and paperwork that "accidentally fell on a knife" both the healthcare providers and the victim may prefer the second - think gang violence where neither side wants the cops involved.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  Many stores there take special safety measures like locking items up. Unlike politicians and research groups, their own money is directly at risk if they over/underreact, so I trust those signs more.
  - shuckles 4y ago
    Yeah it sure is hard to believe that shoplifting is a non-issue when all the stores are reducing hours and putting merchandise behind an expensive to install and operate lock and key system.
- harvey9 4y ago
  ""drug overdose" which is not categorized as a homicide but very well should be" An abrupt 'rise in homicide' caused by changing the definition will just undermine the credibility of the numbers.
vanilla_nut 4y ago
I experienced a very similar situation in Denver before I decided to leave. From friends and acquaintances I gather that Portland and Seattle are in similar situations as well. NYC doesn't seem quite as bad, but it's definitely trending in a similar direction. All of these arguments over crime rates and policing remind me a lot of The Wire, especially Season 3. For those who haven't watched it, it deep dives into the relationship between crime on the street and the high-level political maneuvering to which those crimes are merely an inconvenience, not a problem that needs fixing. Lots of pressure from folks at the top of city government to reduce numbers, rather than fixing the issues. And the frustration at the bottom of that pile, when everyday police officers realize they can't fix structural problems. Makes me wonder what happened to make US cities so much better in the 2010s. Is it just a prosperity thing related to tech wealth? Because it feels like these exact issues were a huge problem in the 90s, and they somehow got better for a decade and a half before covid brought them back worse than ever.
- anon291 4y ago
  > Makes me wonder what happened to make US cities so much better in the 2010s. Is it just a prosperity thing related to tech wealth? Because it feels like these exact issues were a huge problem in the 90s, and they somehow got better for a decade and a half before covid brought them back worse than ever. These were issues in the 90s, and then Giuliani in NY and Riordan in LA spearheaded large cities adding more police officers, a trend which continued until the present day.
- nsnick 4y ago
  I have lived in San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle since the pandemic started and while Portland and Seattle have gotten worse, they don’t hold a candle to how dangerous San Francisco has become. There are parts of San Francisco I won’t walk around in the day time. There simply isn’t anywhere like the tenderloin or SOMA in either Portland or Seattle.
  - notch898b 4y ago
    Witness the cash app CEO desperately trying to get attention of passing cars and no one gives a fuck to see him bleeding out in the street https://www.usasupreme.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/cahs-app-founder.mp4?_=1 https://www.usasupreme.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/cahs-a... rotten.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
stanford_labrat 4y ago
> "in Austin which, for example, their roads feel more like being in a MadMax movie than orderly transportation." I'm sorry but having lived in both the Bay and Austin/Dallas I disagree. A guy tried to ram me with his vehicle going north on 101 near Palo Alto of all places, Texas has been tame in comparison.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  Idk about Texas, but Palo Alto driving is pretty tame. People let you change lanes easily.

kevingadd 4y ago

Crime is always at record lows when we ask police why they aren't doing their jobs, and crime is suddenly an urgent crisis when the police department comes to taxpayers to ask for another pay bump and more equipment.

guelo 4y ago
The quote is from a police commissioner, not the police. SF's police commission is a civilian oversight board over the police. They do not have incentive to downplay crime or to increase police pay.
- shuckles 4y ago
  The SF police commission members definitely have an incentive to downplay crime: if they thought crime was a problem, they wouldn't have been nominated to the commission! (The Board of Supervisors, for example, recently pulled a political maneuver to extend the term of a commission member who effectively wants to dismantle the police force before they would lose the votes to do so: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-mayor-s-office-blasts-Supervisor-Aaron-17644090.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-mayor-s-offi...).
  - birdyrooster 4y ago
    Straw man. One can (soundly) believe crime is a problem without believing police are the only solution to that crime.
    - shuckles 4y ago
      In theory yes, but the specific politics of police abolition mean it’s hard to get votes to defund the police if the public thinks crime is a problem. This is why the same politicians claiming to defund the police in 2020 and asking for more policing in 2023. There are very few electeds who argue both that crime is a growing problem and we should reallocate budgets away from policing.

TeeMassive 4y ago

colpabar 4y ago
The answer to all three of your questions is “anyone who thinks they’ll benefit from doing so.” To claim any of those things are unique to one group is ridiculous.
asveikau 4y ago
I agree with Mr. Benedicto. I think all the tough on crime shit doesn't work and it's a huge distraction from solving issues in San Francisco. Our recall of the district attorney was a huge waste of time. We now have a DA who has the mayor's approval and the support of the tough on crime jackals and nothing has changed, actually people say it's gotten worse since then. Because as recall opponents have said from the start, the causes of crime are more complicated than who the district attorney is. That's not projection, that's being pissed off at political misinformation. It's a line straight out of Trump speeches, "carnage in our cities" and all that, it isn't reality based and it helps no one.
- shuckles 4y ago
  Tough on crime policies can mean a lot of things, but more police officers on the streets definitely improve both crime rates and the perception of safety. So does higher rates of clearance and prosecution. This is not a controversial fact in research. The question is always whether it's worth the cost, since police departments are very expensive.

shuckles 4y ago

A single Target downtown accidentally started reporting all shoplifting incidents and _tripled_ the citywide rate: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/shoplifting-data-Target-Walgreens-16647769.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/shoplifting-data-Targ... A teacher was beaten deaf by one of their students at a middle school and was stopped from reporting the assault to the police: https://missionlocal.org/2022/04/total-meltdown-at-everett-middle-school/ https://missionlocal.org/2022/04/total-meltdown-at-everett-m... The local crime statistics are not reliable. Even homicides, which tend to be hard to underreport, should be used very carefully since 600+ people die every year from "drug overdose" which is not categorized as a homicide but very well should be.

bombcar 4y ago
Data that can be manipulated will be manipulated; especially if there's power/money on the line. Even things like hospitals reporting stabbings can be manipulated, intentionally or otherwise; if "intentional stabbing" requires reporting and paperwork that "accidentally fell on a knife" both the healthcare providers and the victim may prefer the second - think gang violence where neither side wants the cops involved.
hot_gril 4y ago
Many stores there take special safety measures like locking items up. Unlike politicians and research groups, their own money is directly at risk if they over/underreact, so I trust those signs more.
- shuckles 4y ago
  Yeah it sure is hard to believe that shoplifting is a non-issue when all the stores are reducing hours and putting merchandise behind an expensive to install and operate lock and key system.
harvey9 4y ago
""drug overdose" which is not categorized as a homicide but very well should be" An abrupt 'rise in homicide' caused by changing the definition will just undermine the credibility of the numbers.

vanilla_nut 4y ago

I experienced a very similar situation in Denver before I decided to leave. From friends and acquaintances I gather that Portland and Seattle are in similar situations as well. NYC doesn't seem quite as bad, but it's definitely trending in a similar direction. All of these arguments over crime rates and policing remind me a lot of The Wire, especially Season 3. For those who haven't watched it, it deep dives into the relationship between crime on the street and the high-level political maneuvering to which those crimes are merely an inconvenience, not a problem that needs fixing. Lots of pressure from folks at the top of city government to reduce numbers, rather than fixing the issues. And the frustration at the bottom of that pile, when everyday police officers realize they can't fix structural problems. Makes me wonder what happened to make US cities so much better in the 2010s. Is it just a prosperity thing related to tech wealth? Because it feels like these exact issues were a huge problem in the 90s, and they somehow got better for a decade and a half before covid brought them back worse than ever.

anon291 4y ago
> Makes me wonder what happened to make US cities so much better in the 2010s. Is it just a prosperity thing related to tech wealth? Because it feels like these exact issues were a huge problem in the 90s, and they somehow got better for a decade and a half before covid brought them back worse than ever. These were issues in the 90s, and then Giuliani in NY and Riordan in LA spearheaded large cities adding more police officers, a trend which continued until the present day.
nsnick 4y ago
I have lived in San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle since the pandemic started and while Portland and Seattle have gotten worse, they don’t hold a candle to how dangerous San Francisco has become. There are parts of San Francisco I won’t walk around in the day time. There simply isn’t anywhere like the tenderloin or SOMA in either Portland or Seattle.
- notch898b 4y ago
  Witness the cash app CEO desperately trying to get attention of passing cars and no one gives a fuck to see him bleeding out in the street https://www.usasupreme.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/cahs-app-founder.mp4?_=1 https://www.usasupreme.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/cahs-a... rotten.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

stanford_labrat 4y ago

> "in Austin which, for example, their roads feel more like being in a MadMax movie than orderly transportation." I'm sorry but having lived in both the Bay and Austin/Dallas I disagree. A guy tried to ram me with his vehicle going north on 101 near Palo Alto of all places, Texas has been tame in comparison.

hot_gril 4y ago
Idk about Texas, but Palo Alto driving is pretty tame. People let you change lanes easily.