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> I prefer if people keep their politics out of IT infrastructure. I find it interesting that people only ever say this when talking about free software initi

by jwmcq 4y ago

> I prefer if people keep their politics out of IT infrastructure. I find it interesting that people only ever say this when talking about free software initiatives. Nobody moans about software getting 'political' when talking about closed-source companies enforcing intellectual property laws that were literally written by politicians.

fauigerzigerk 4y ago
> I prefer if people keep their politics out of IT infrastructure. >> I find it interesting that people only ever say this when talking about free software initiatives. Nobody moans about software getting 'political' when talking about closed-source companies enforcing intellectual property laws that were literally written by politicians. I'm sorry, but I find your extremely selective quoting offensive. You are distorting the meaning of my comment, in fact turning it into its exact opposite. You even left out the first two words of the sentence you are quoting just to make your point. I said "In general I prefer..." followed by two paragraphs justifying why I think that this general principle doesn't apply to open source and to this project in particular.
- jwmcq 4y ago
  If your 'general principle' doesn't apply to the most important and popular software in the world (open source) then perhaps it is not very general, and not very principled.
  - fauigerzigerk 4y ago
    My general principle is that political opinions as well as political conflicts and fault lines should not determine access to IT infrastructures. Now, open source licences themselves as well as distribution platforms such as public git repositories guarantee access to some very important global IT infrastructures. Perhaps you can see why my general principle cannot apply to open source in the same way it applies to other things that fall under "their politics" - the rather sloppy term I originally used. It's the same reason why the principle of tolerance cannot apply to tolerance itself in the same way it applies elsewhere. I think principles are always contradictory in the absolute. They only make sense as directions along specific dimensions and can rarely be applied to themselves.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      > My general principle is that political opinions as well as political conflicts and fault lines should not determine access to IT infrastructures. Then you're going to be disappointed, because politics is intrinsically intertwined with software and IT infrastructure. The fact that so much IT infra is built on top of open source and free software means that discussion is inescapable. The fact that corporations need to track the licensing of the software they use (both for proprietary and open source software) is enough proof of that.
- kelnos 4y ago
  Regardless of what you said in your later paragraphs, statements of the form "I prefer to keep politics out of X" are often naive, as is the case here. Unfortunately, politics is everywhere, and ignoring that only serves to ignore important aspects of reality that can affect outcomes you care about. Politics is a part of IT infrastructure, full stop. Ignoring that won't make it go away. The discussion on this post is proof of that.

by jwmcq 4y ago

fauigerzigerk 4y ago

> I prefer if people keep their politics out of IT infrastructure. >> I find it interesting that people only ever say this when talking about free software initiatives. Nobody moans about software getting 'political' when talking about closed-source companies enforcing intellectual property laws that were literally written by politicians. I'm sorry, but I find your extremely selective quoting offensive. You are distorting the meaning of my comment, in fact turning it into its exact opposite. You even left out the first two words of the sentence you are quoting just to make your point. I said "In general I prefer..." followed by two paragraphs justifying why I think that this general principle doesn't apply to open source and to this project in particular.

jwmcq 4y ago
If your 'general principle' doesn't apply to the most important and popular software in the world (open source) then perhaps it is not very general, and not very principled.
- fauigerzigerk 4y ago
  My general principle is that political opinions as well as political conflicts and fault lines should not determine access to IT infrastructures. Now, open source licences themselves as well as distribution platforms such as public git repositories guarantee access to some very important global IT infrastructures. Perhaps you can see why my general principle cannot apply to open source in the same way it applies to other things that fall under "their politics" - the rather sloppy term I originally used. It's the same reason why the principle of tolerance cannot apply to tolerance itself in the same way it applies elsewhere. I think principles are always contradictory in the absolute. They only make sense as directions along specific dimensions and can rarely be applied to themselves.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    > My general principle is that political opinions as well as political conflicts and fault lines should not determine access to IT infrastructures. Then you're going to be disappointed, because politics is intrinsically intertwined with software and IT infrastructure. The fact that so much IT infra is built on top of open source and free software means that discussion is inescapable. The fact that corporations need to track the licensing of the software they use (both for proprietary and open source software) is enough proof of that.
kelnos 4y ago
Regardless of what you said in your later paragraphs, statements of the form "I prefer to keep politics out of X" are often naive, as is the case here. Unfortunately, politics is everywhere, and ignoring that only serves to ignore important aspects of reality that can affect outcomes you care about. Politics is a part of IT infrastructure, full stop. Ignoring that won't make it go away. The discussion on this post is proof of that.