4 ms·

That's wild, isn't the flipper basically just a TI CC1101 wireless dev board? Is Amazon going to ban every TI wireless board next?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
weego 3y ago
This line of logic just results in the 'guns don't kill, people do' argument.
- mkmk3 3y ago
  For sure, but its more like knives instead of guns it seems
- qbasic_forever 3y ago
  What? That is a legitimately insane leap of logic to infer from what I said. The TI CC series of wireless chips are _decades_ old and in use with thousand and thousands of devices. You almost certainly are surrounded by multiple CCxxxx chips _right now_ in any little wireless remote control or iot gadget. These are extremely common chips and banning the flipper because it's a hacking device or whatever is just silly since it's not any more problematic than the TI CC wireless dev boards and devices.
- jstanley 3y ago
  Even if that were true, the fact that an argument leads to a conclusion you don't like is not sufficient to invalidate the argument.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
I mean theoretically you can make a card skimmer with pretty much any programmable interface, just like how you can make a gun out of anything that can hold gunpowder, or kill someone with anything pointy. I'm no policy maker, but I'm sure the convenience is the deciding factor. This device allows amateurs to perform a wide range of sophisticated security breaching tasks, for example.
Closi 3y ago
I think the fact flipper is designed to do things such as read/emulate NFC cards may make it different to selling the raw dev-board. i.e. Selling air-duster to dust things is different to selling air-duster to get high, even if it's the same product you are selling.
- qbasic_forever 3y ago
  NFC dev boards are just as ubiquitous, they're even on your phone. An Android phone with NFC can read and write NFC cards right now too. The root problem here is sloppy security through obscurity practices. If you use proper security like RSA certificates on NFC cards then there is no way a simple clone and replay attack (like a flipper or Android phone with NFC can do) will work, it is 100% impossible without breaking RSA encryption (which would be a lifetime achievement/Nobel prize worthy feat).
  - Closi 3y ago
    Yes, they are ubiquitous, but I guess my point is that if you market a product for a specific use-case that sellers don't want to associate with then you will probably get that your listing removed (i.e. if I have a hammer and advertise it for DIY I will be fine for Amazon, but if I sell that same hammer but call it "Murder Hammer - Best Hammer For Personal Protection!" I will have that product removed even if hammers are ubiquitous and in every toolbox. Same item different product). As Flipper Zero is marketed as a 'hacking tool', discusses use-cases as cloning cards and acting as a 'bad USB' device, has a indie go-go page that implies that you could use it to break into car parks, I'm not entirely surprised that Amazon wouldn't want to stock it. This doesn't mean I don't think it's a great product - I want one and I'm glad it exists. I'm just also not entirely sure I would want to sell it if I was a global retailer.
- brutusurp 3y ago
  So, Proxmark3: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=proxmark3+rdv4&crid=8NFHBEDKSLEF&sprefix=%2Caps%2C128&ref=nb_sb_ss_recent_1_0_recent https://www.amazon.com/s?k=proxmark3+rdv4&crid=8NFHBEDKSLEF&...?
anon_fren 3y ago
[dead]
YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
What a product is marketed as matters in these cases, for liability purposes. You can sell carving knives and not worry about people using them as murder weapons, but if you took the same knives and sold them as 'Extra-lethal murder knives, very good at killing people unlawfully', you might be on the wrong end of some lawsuits.
jkestner 3y ago
It’s not just an dev board. It’s got a UI and software to perform specific functions.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

weego 3y ago

This line of logic just results in the 'guns don't kill, people do' argument.

mkmk3 3y ago
For sure, but its more like knives instead of guns it seems
qbasic_forever 3y ago
What? That is a legitimately insane leap of logic to infer from what I said. The TI CC series of wireless chips are _decades_ old and in use with thousand and thousands of devices. You almost certainly are surrounded by multiple CCxxxx chips _right now_ in any little wireless remote control or iot gadget. These are extremely common chips and banning the flipper because it's a hacking device or whatever is just silly since it's not any more problematic than the TI CC wireless dev boards and devices.
jstanley 3y ago
Even if that were true, the fact that an argument leads to a conclusion you don't like is not sufficient to invalidate the argument.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

I mean theoretically you can make a card skimmer with pretty much any programmable interface, just like how you can make a gun out of anything that can hold gunpowder, or kill someone with anything pointy. I'm no policy maker, but I'm sure the convenience is the deciding factor. This device allows amateurs to perform a wide range of sophisticated security breaching tasks, for example.

Closi 3y ago

I think the fact flipper is designed to do things such as read/emulate NFC cards may make it different to selling the raw dev-board. i.e. Selling air-duster to dust things is different to selling air-duster to get high, even if it's the same product you are selling.

qbasic_forever 3y ago
NFC dev boards are just as ubiquitous, they're even on your phone. An Android phone with NFC can read and write NFC cards right now too. The root problem here is sloppy security through obscurity practices. If you use proper security like RSA certificates on NFC cards then there is no way a simple clone and replay attack (like a flipper or Android phone with NFC can do) will work, it is 100% impossible without breaking RSA encryption (which would be a lifetime achievement/Nobel prize worthy feat).
- Closi 3y ago
  Yes, they are ubiquitous, but I guess my point is that if you market a product for a specific use-case that sellers don't want to associate with then you will probably get that your listing removed (i.e. if I have a hammer and advertise it for DIY I will be fine for Amazon, but if I sell that same hammer but call it "Murder Hammer - Best Hammer For Personal Protection!" I will have that product removed even if hammers are ubiquitous and in every toolbox. Same item different product). As Flipper Zero is marketed as a 'hacking tool', discusses use-cases as cloning cards and acting as a 'bad USB' device, has a indie go-go page that implies that you could use it to break into car parks, I'm not entirely surprised that Amazon wouldn't want to stock it. This doesn't mean I don't think it's a great product - I want one and I'm glad it exists. I'm just also not entirely sure I would want to sell it if I was a global retailer.
brutusurp 3y ago
So, Proxmark3: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=proxmark3+rdv4&crid=8NFHBEDKSLEF&sprefix=%2Caps%2C128&ref=nb_sb_ss_recent_1_0_recent https://www.amazon.com/s?k=proxmark3+rdv4&crid=8NFHBEDKSLEF&...?

anon_fren 3y ago

[dead]

YurgenJurgensen 3y ago

What a product is marketed as matters in these cases, for liability purposes. You can sell carving knives and not worry about people using them as murder weapons, but if you took the same knives and sold them as 'Extra-lethal murder knives, very good at killing people unlawfully', you might be on the wrong end of some lawsuits.

jkestner 3y ago

It’s not just an dev board. It’s got a UI and software to perform specific functions.