6 ms·

Random question; why are terms written in all caps?

by KMnO4 4y ago

rhaway84773 4y ago
To make them harder to read. Edit: In this case it appears they’re using it for emphasis, since the majority of the ToS is in normal caps, but it was definitely a deliberate dark pattern until very recently to make the ToS hard to read.
- Closi 4y ago
  This isn’t true - caps are a legal standard in the USA to indicate that this section is higher-importance for the reader. It’s actually a legal obligation to make your terms “conspicuous”. So it’s actually supposed to be the opposite - to meet a legal obligation to highlight to users that they should pay particular notice to certain sections.
  - rationalist 4y ago
    PARAGRAPHS OF ALL CAPS is harder to read for some people.
    - Closi 4y ago
      It's not supposed to be easier to read, it's supposed to make it clear to the reader that it's important. (I'm not a fan of it anyway - I'm from the UK and think it's silly, but I've come across this plenty during contract negotiations with American lawyers that will insist on certain sections being in caps)
      - rationalist 4y ago
        (this isn't necessarily directed at you) Does that mean the rest is not important? If so, why include it, or why not make it all caps, and if it's all caps, why make it caps at all. Unfortunately legal things are about rules and laws, not common sense.
        Closi 4y ago
        Yep, It's silly :) But let's say that WD doesn't capitalise some bits, that might come back to bite them if there is a class action lawsuit.
  - WindyLakeReturn 4y ago
    Something can be legally required but also have been originally made into a requirement as a dark pattern. The idea that something is legally defined as being 'conspicuous' in a way that makes it less conspicuous makes me consider that a dark pattern was the original intent. While I commonly hear to never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, I don't feel that is applicable to the legal system.
    - Closi 4y ago
      It's a legal document following precedent about contract law. Lawyers and the companies they represent are usually better served by following established legal precedent than veering off it. Let's say the lawyers decide to be 'creative' and then bold the text instead, and then it gets copied into a page and some CSS renders it without bold text - suddenly the contract might have legal challenges, and the lawyers will rightly be asked why they decided to not follow established industry and legal norms. I think it's a bit silly too, but if I was hiring an American lawyer I would want them to follow established norms rather than come up with their own unique and legally-untested interpretation of what is required.
Villodre 4y ago
READABILITY AND FRIGHTENING LEGALESE
Closi 4y ago
There are legal requirements in the USA to ensure certain parts of an agreement are “conspicuous” (ie should be made so that consumers/customers don’t miss them). Placing the terms in caps is a historical way to achieve the legal bar for this, so is a legal tradition in the USA. In other legal systems (eg the UK) you don’t get this, it’s a uniquely American phenomenon as far as I know.
- lxgr 4y ago
  I've noticed that too. IRONICALLY IT MAKES THESE PARTS OF A CONTRACT QUITE HARD TO READ, IN MY EXPERIENCE.

Random question; why are terms written in all caps?

by KMnO4 4y ago

Random question; why are terms written in all caps?

To make them harder to read. Edit: In this case it appears they’re using it for emphasis, since the majority of the ToS is in normal caps, but it was definitely a deliberate dark pattern until very recently to make the ToS hard to read.

Closi 4y ago
This isn’t true - caps are a legal standard in the USA to indicate that this section is higher-importance for the reader. It’s actually a legal obligation to make your terms “conspicuous”. So it’s actually supposed to be the opposite - to meet a legal obligation to highlight to users that they should pay particular notice to certain sections.
- rationalist 4y ago
  PARAGRAPHS OF ALL CAPS is harder to read for some people.
  - Closi 4y ago
    It's not supposed to be easier to read, it's supposed to make it clear to the reader that it's important. (I'm not a fan of it anyway - I'm from the UK and think it's silly, but I've come across this plenty during contract negotiations with American lawyers that will insist on certain sections being in caps)
    - rationalist 4y ago
      (this isn't necessarily directed at you) Does that mean the rest is not important? If so, why include it, or why not make it all caps, and if it's all caps, why make it caps at all. Unfortunately legal things are about rules and laws, not common sense.
      - Closi 4y ago
        Yep, It's silly :) But let's say that WD doesn't capitalise some bits, that might come back to bite them if there is a class action lawsuit.
- WindyLakeReturn 4y ago
  Something can be legally required but also have been originally made into a requirement as a dark pattern. The idea that something is legally defined as being 'conspicuous' in a way that makes it less conspicuous makes me consider that a dark pattern was the original intent. While I commonly hear to never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, I don't feel that is applicable to the legal system.
  - Closi 4y ago
    It's a legal document following precedent about contract law. Lawyers and the companies they represent are usually better served by following established legal precedent than veering off it. Let's say the lawyers decide to be 'creative' and then bold the text instead, and then it gets copied into a page and some CSS renders it without bold text - suddenly the contract might have legal challenges, and the lawyers will rightly be asked why they decided to not follow established industry and legal norms. I think it's a bit silly too, but if I was hiring an American lawyer I would want them to follow established norms rather than come up with their own unique and legally-untested interpretation of what is required.

Villodre 4y ago

READABILITY AND FRIGHTENING LEGALESE

Closi 4y ago

There are legal requirements in the USA to ensure certain parts of an agreement are “conspicuous” (ie should be made so that consumers/customers don’t miss them). Placing the terms in caps is a historical way to achieve the legal bar for this, so is a legal tradition in the USA. In other legal systems (eg the UK) you don’t get this, it’s a uniquely American phenomenon as far as I know.

lxgr 4y ago
I've noticed that too. IRONICALLY IT MAKES THESE PARTS OF A CONTRACT QUITE HARD TO READ, IN MY EXPERIENCE.