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We're awfully strange and fascinating creatures, aren't we? Oddly, this is basically the same way I approach swearing with my kids: our position is that there
by dgacmu 4y ago
We're awfully strange and fascinating creatures, aren't we?
Oddly, this is basically the same way I approach swearing with my kids: our position is that there is no such thing as a "bad" word but that they won't be able, as kids, to predict how adults will respond to the use of those words. Because some will react very badly, they should probably just not use them at all until they're older and more able to evaluate the social context. But they can say whatever they want in front of me.
- djbusby 4y agoAs long as they can spell it, they can say it.
- enobrev 4y agoSo no speaking until they learn to read? Series of grunts until school starts?
- 3np 4y agoWho said "if they can't spell it, they can't say it"?
- thomastjeffery 4y agoThat's the obvious implication.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 3np 4y agoObviously not, given the apparent issue of their kids not speaking until elementary school.
- Izkata 4y agoMaybe better taken as a warning (to the parent) than permission (for the kid). When I was a kid I got mad at my brother and was going to call him a "dumbshit" or something like that, but halfway through the word I realized my mom was listening and tried to slur it into gibberish. The "shit" part came out as something like "shlut" and really shocked my mom - "where did you learn that word?" - and I had no idea what she was talking about. I'd never heard the word "slut" before.
- EvanAnderson 4y agoMy 3 y/o daughter asked her pre-school teacher what "F-U-C-K" spelled. I'd taken to spelling it rather than saying it, but it inadvertently became a spelling lesson.
- steve_adams_86 4y agoIt’s reassuring to read this; I take the exact same approach and reasoning with my kids. I haven’t met other parents who openly take this approach, but even so, my sense is that words are simply words. Intent and consequence are what truly matter and should be considered. Have kids look at it this way and they might be more critical of all language, not just a handful of words. Or so we can hope, haha.
- skrebbel 4y agoOh that's a nice idea, I'm gonna do that too!
- mfer 4y agoWhile I would agree there isn't a "bad" word there are phrases and words that have meaning in context. I try to teach my kids to know the context and to not tear others down. For example, I have friends I can call a b&%@h and it will be a good laugh. If I said that to many others it would be an insult. Learning that subtle nuance with kids takes some time and they have to develop to a certain level to get it. When kids are young and can't understand that level of context, yet, I have words they just aren't allowed to use. Just so they don't accidentally say something hurtful they don't mean to.
- portmanteur 4y agoMy brother's rule for his kids regarding swearing and other NSFW words is: "You'll probably hear adults use these words from time to time, but you can't repeat these words until you start paying taxes."
- mock-possum 4y agoSoooooo I’m guessing your nieces and nephews swear whenever they want, they’re just careful not to do it when dad is around to hear it. I tend to favour my friends’ policy about swearing with their kids: everybody feels differently about it, so you have to be careful about swearing around other people until you know whether it’s okay with them. At home? Probably fine. At school? Probably need to be more careful about it. It’s much more realistic to teach nuance than to outright forbid the behavior imo. ( Although I suppose we should probably acknowledge - 1) these are not our kids, and 2) every kid is different. Some kids appreciate the value of choosing your words to fit your audience, some adults never learned. )
- celu 4y agoExcept isn't them learning that there are certain people (like dad) to not swear around the whole goal?
- kevviiinn 4y agoI'm not sure which comment you're reading, but the person you're replying to is talking about their friend's policy which explicitly states that there exist some people who you probably shouldn't swear around. It just isn't dad
- celu 4y ago> Soooooo I’m guessing your nieces and nephews swear whenever they want, they’re just careful not to do it when dad is around to hear it. My point is this isn't even a bad thing. As long as they learn to not swear around certain people (like dad), then that's what you want
- me-vs-cat 4y agoWhen I was 8, my grandfather told me, "You can use swear words, but you will sound like a fucking idiot."
- jonah 4y agoOne time when I swore around my grandfather he said: "vulgarity is the poverty of language." It has stuck with me as a reminder that you should be able to express your thoughts on whatever is going on with wisdom and nuance. (IMHO, "bad words" are sometimes appropriate.)
- akiselev 4y agoThey’re the gaudy golden toilets of language. Sometimes it makes sense to emphasize just how ridiculously rich and powerful the king is, but usually they should have just gone with a boring porcelain shitter like everyone else.
- ilyt 4y agoWell, there is huge difference between using vulgar worlds to accentuate just how thoroughly fucked something is, and using them like a fucking inter-fucking punction every bloody third fucking word. First approach used sparingly is good, it expands range of expression without making communication longer, second, well, "poverty of language" is a good name for it.
- noelwelsh 4y agoIn the same vein, I've always loved this line that eloquently shows the difference between Australian and English attitudes to swearing: "OK, which of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?" (From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Jardine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Jardine)
- c22 4y agoWhenever my kids would swear I would ask them for a definition of the word. If they didn't have one I would suggest that it was perhaps unwise to use words whose meanings one did not know and leave it at that.
- thomastjeffery 4y agoThe general utility of swear words is that they don't. Natural Language is not explicitly constructed, no matter how confidently your favorite dictionary likes to pretend it to be. Natural Language is full of ambiguity, and we resolve that ambiguity with context. Noam Chomsky famously recognized this categorization as "context dependent grammar". In that same vein, he categorized what we write software in as "context free grammar". He then proved mathematically that we cannot write computer programs in context dependent grammar. Are you children computers or humans? Why should you constrain their language to a lower category?
- sonofhans 4y agoNice. I swore around my son flagrantly, and taught him to swear on purpose. One of his first five words was "fuck." One time when he was two, he came out of his bedroom in diapers late one night, saying, "God dammit, I forgot my fucking water bottle in the living room." Perhaps the funniest thing I've ever seen. But we also told him early on that swearing was like being naked -- there's nothing wrong with it, but it makes some people uncomfortable, so you should only do it in our home and only around family. It worked perfectly. He swore like a drunken sailor at home, and outside the house he would correct us if we ever swore. After a while swearing got boring for him, and as a teenager he doesn't do it much. My plan exactly, playing for the long term :)