4 ms·

Board game where tigers hunt goats while goats block their movements

90 points by iamsuman 3y ago

29athrowaway 3y ago
See also Adugo, Taptana, Komikan
- bee_rider 3y ago
  It also reminds me of games like Fox and Goose and Tafl. I wonder if they are all related.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    There's also Pratchet's Thud which is similar to Hnefatafl but has no king piece: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4532/thud https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4532/thud (Asymmetrical game fans should also look at Ogre https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5206/ogre https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5206/ogre - one advantage of asymmetrical games is it is very easy to handicap by adding or removing pieces from the side that is "weaker/more numerous")
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    My preferred descendant of Fox and Geese is Asalto[1]. If you have e.g. a bunch of pennies and two dimes, plus a ruler and a pencil you can draw your own board in under a minutes. It also plays on many solitaire[2] boards. With practice, the attacker will always win, so you play two rounds, switching roles and see who can win with the fewest losses. 1: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25988/asalto https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25988/asalto 2: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13713/solitaire https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13713/solitaire
- Jeff_Brown 3y ago
  Also Nine Men's Morris -- which Wikipedia informs me has been solved (it's a tie).
- iamsuman 3y ago
  Wow, these games are so cool. Thanks for sharing.
spywaregorilla 3y ago
I tried playing as goats on the demo hard ai. It was a bit more interesting than I expected, but after winning on hard one time I was able to immediately win again in about 15 seconds. Is this game easily solved for goats? Or is the ai perhaps just not very good? It does seem like it just chases opportunities for captures greedily. edit: Looks like I struggle to win as tigers too
- hgsgm 3y ago
  With this AI, It's trivial to win as goats by playing as far in the corners as possible on every turn.
  - spywaregorilla 3y ago
    The Goat AI appears to do the same, and seems very hard to defeat. What's the counterplay? edit: I'm not sure the game is coded correctly. It seems like once a tiger moves from A to B, it can never move from B to A. Including cases where the tiger jumps A to C, it cannot jump back from C to A if the goat places another one in B... That feels very unintuitive and untrackable in a real world game.
    - iamsuman 3y ago
      There are times where the game could fall into a repetitive cycle of positions; especially goats may use this resort to defend themselves from being captured. In order to avoid this kind of situation, that rule was established.
      - spywaregorilla 3y ago
        Well it's not my game, but this does not sound correct to me. The game by definition cannot get into a cycle of positions until all the goats are placed. This seems like it ought to be a restriction only on moving goats, and only that the goat player should not be allowed to move the last moved goat to it's original spot. As it stands now, a tiger player cannot move a tiger to it's previous spot from several turns prior, including capturing over the same space. Which means that even if the goat player loses a goat, they can put a goat back in the same space and it'll now be safe (vs. the tiger that just captured it at least). I'm not convinced it is possible to win against a competent goat player.
captn3m0 3y ago
Ludii has a nice page on Baghchal: https://ludii.games/details.php?keyword=Baghchal https://ludii.games/details.php?keyword=Baghchal
- iamsuman 3y ago
  Indeed. What do you think of this one? https://iamsuman.itch.io/bagchal https://iamsuman.itch.io/bagchal
bipop5000 3y ago
Bagchaal. Memories of playing this in the Kathmandu alleyways and random front yards of people. The 90s was alright.
- iamsuman 3y ago
  Feeling nostalgic, right? Having grown up playing this game, I find it hard to see so few people playing it these days.
- tomcam 3y ago
  That short post was so evocative I would love to read your blog or buy your book.
- based2 3y ago
  I saw this, there were just playing it with stones on the ground. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh-Chal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh-Chal
scotty79 3y ago
I've seen a game "Wolf and Goats" played on standard checkerboard. Goats are white and set up like standard checkers. Black is one wolf set up on any black field on the opposite edge. Wolf moves diagonally back and forth and takes pieces by jumping over them (at will?) like in checkers (also back and forth) and wins when he passes the goats so he has clear way to their starting edge. Goats can just move forward like in checkers but they can't take wolf piece and win if they surround wolf so that he doesn't have any move left. There are also few similar games played of different boards: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_games https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_games
- iamsuman 3y ago
  Looks interesting. Love to try those games.

90 points by iamsuman 3y ago

29athrowaway 3y ago

See also Adugo, Taptana, Komikan

bee_rider 3y ago
It also reminds me of games like Fox and Goose and Tafl. I wonder if they are all related.
- bombcar 3y ago
  There's also Pratchet's Thud which is similar to Hnefatafl but has no king piece: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4532/thud https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4532/thud (Asymmetrical game fans should also look at Ogre https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5206/ogre https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5206/ogre - one advantage of asymmetrical games is it is very easy to handicap by adding or removing pieces from the side that is "weaker/more numerous")
- aidenn0 3y ago
  My preferred descendant of Fox and Geese is Asalto[1]. If you have e.g. a bunch of pennies and two dimes, plus a ruler and a pencil you can draw your own board in under a minutes. It also plays on many solitaire[2] boards. With practice, the attacker will always win, so you play two rounds, switching roles and see who can win with the fewest losses. 1: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25988/asalto https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25988/asalto 2: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13713/solitaire https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13713/solitaire
Jeff_Brown 3y ago
Also Nine Men's Morris -- which Wikipedia informs me has been solved (it's a tie).
iamsuman 3y ago
Wow, these games are so cool. Thanks for sharing.

spywaregorilla 3y ago

I tried playing as goats on the demo hard ai. It was a bit more interesting than I expected, but after winning on hard one time I was able to immediately win again in about 15 seconds. Is this game easily solved for goats? Or is the ai perhaps just not very good? It does seem like it just chases opportunities for captures greedily. edit: Looks like I struggle to win as tigers too

hgsgm 3y ago
With this AI, It's trivial to win as goats by playing as far in the corners as possible on every turn.
- spywaregorilla 3y ago
  The Goat AI appears to do the same, and seems very hard to defeat. What's the counterplay? edit: I'm not sure the game is coded correctly. It seems like once a tiger moves from A to B, it can never move from B to A. Including cases where the tiger jumps A to C, it cannot jump back from C to A if the goat places another one in B... That feels very unintuitive and untrackable in a real world game.
  - iamsuman 3y ago
    There are times where the game could fall into a repetitive cycle of positions; especially goats may use this resort to defend themselves from being captured. In order to avoid this kind of situation, that rule was established.
    - spywaregorilla 3y ago
      Well it's not my game, but this does not sound correct to me. The game by definition cannot get into a cycle of positions until all the goats are placed. This seems like it ought to be a restriction only on moving goats, and only that the goat player should not be allowed to move the last moved goat to it's original spot. As it stands now, a tiger player cannot move a tiger to it's previous spot from several turns prior, including capturing over the same space. Which means that even if the goat player loses a goat, they can put a goat back in the same space and it'll now be safe (vs. the tiger that just captured it at least). I'm not convinced it is possible to win against a competent goat player.

captn3m0 3y ago

Ludii has a nice page on Baghchal: https://ludii.games/details.php?keyword=Baghchal https://ludii.games/details.php?keyword=Baghchal

iamsuman 3y ago
Indeed. What do you think of this one? https://iamsuman.itch.io/bagchal https://iamsuman.itch.io/bagchal

bipop5000 3y ago

Bagchaal. Memories of playing this in the Kathmandu alleyways and random front yards of people. The 90s was alright.

iamsuman 3y ago
Feeling nostalgic, right? Having grown up playing this game, I find it hard to see so few people playing it these days.
tomcam 3y ago
That short post was so evocative I would love to read your blog or buy your book.
based2 3y ago
I saw this, there were just playing it with stones on the ground. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh-Chal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh-Chal

scotty79 3y ago

I've seen a game "Wolf and Goats" played on standard checkerboard. Goats are white and set up like standard checkers. Black is one wolf set up on any black field on the opposite edge. Wolf moves diagonally back and forth and takes pieces by jumping over them (at will?) like in checkers (also back and forth) and wins when he passes the goats so he has clear way to their starting edge. Goats can just move forward like in checkers but they can't take wolf piece and win if they surround wolf so that he doesn't have any move left. There are also few similar games played of different boards: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_games https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_games

iamsuman 3y ago
Looks interesting. Love to try those games.