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The only way this war could "have been avoided" is if Russia didn't decide to invade it. Anything else is just victim blaming Russian propaganda that tries to j

The only way this war could "have been avoided" is if Russia didn't decide to invade it. Anything else is just victim blaming Russian propaganda that tries to justify Russia's naked imperialism.

realworldperson 4y ago
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FpUser 4y ago
The blame lays squarely on Russia. No argument about it. The point was that with the right policies in the beginning of 2000s the US could have prevented this outcome but had chosen not to. The EU could've done the same at the time but it always plays poodle. After Putin's second return to power it was probably too late anyways.
- HyperSane 4y ago
  Yeh if you go that far back we could have done some things better.
bakuninsbart 4y ago
It could have also been avoided by not offering Ukraine an Association Agreement - or retracting it when it became clear that this was a red line for Russia, and there was a deep societal divide within Ukraine on whether to align with the West or Russia. The Maidan protests had barely 50% support across all of Ukraine (but much higher in Kiev and the western regions of Ukraine). The risk of Ukraine fracturing over this was very obvious, but apparently completely acceptable to European leaders. > Anything else is just victim blaming Russian propaganda that tries to justify Russia's naked imperialism. That's such a narrow and poor way to talk about international politics, and it is exactly the reason why we have a war in Europe, and broken countries like Syria and Libya on our doorstep. Even if your intentions are good, it is worthless if the consequences are terrible. In general the "everything that doesn't align with my worldview is propaganda" is a pretty good sign someone loves eating propaganda.
- HyperSane 4y ago
  Do you have any proof for your first paragraph? Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin is a lunatic who wanted Ukrainian land to be part of Russia because he things that would cement his legacy. That is the only reason. Everything else is lies. The invasion has caused Finland to join NATO, which was a predictable consequence of the invasion.

The only way this war could "have been avoided" is if Russia didn't decide to invade it. Anything else is just victim blaming Russian propaganda that tries to justify Russia's naked imperialism.

realworldperson 4y ago

[dead]

FpUser 4y ago

The blame lays squarely on Russia. No argument about it. The point was that with the right policies in the beginning of 2000s the US could have prevented this outcome but had chosen not to. The EU could've done the same at the time but it always plays poodle. After Putin's second return to power it was probably too late anyways.

HyperSane 4y ago
Yeh if you go that far back we could have done some things better.

bakuninsbart 4y ago

It could have also been avoided by not offering Ukraine an Association Agreement - or retracting it when it became clear that this was a red line for Russia, and there was a deep societal divide within Ukraine on whether to align with the West or Russia. The Maidan protests had barely 50% support across all of Ukraine (but much higher in Kiev and the western regions of Ukraine). The risk of Ukraine fracturing over this was very obvious, but apparently completely acceptable to European leaders. > Anything else is just victim blaming Russian propaganda that tries to justify Russia's naked imperialism. That's such a narrow and poor way to talk about international politics, and it is exactly the reason why we have a war in Europe, and broken countries like Syria and Libya on our doorstep. Even if your intentions are good, it is worthless if the consequences are terrible. In general the "everything that doesn't align with my worldview is propaganda" is a pretty good sign someone loves eating propaganda.

HyperSane 4y ago
Do you have any proof for your first paragraph? Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin is a lunatic who wanted Ukrainian land to be part of Russia because he things that would cement his legacy. That is the only reason. Everything else is lies. The invasion has caused Finland to join NATO, which was a predictable consequence of the invasion.