6 ms·

Yeah, we live in a puppet state. We can't even vote for Von der Leyen, and then they have the gall to criticise China! And the worst part is they even fail at

Yeah, we live in a puppet state. We can't even vote for Von der Leyen, and then they have the gall to criticise China! And the worst part is they even fail at providing a good single market. You still can't work for a Spanish company from Germany (without being a freelancer), or pay your taxes in Spain with a French bank account. If you start a company, hiring across Europe means having local payroll offices to handle local taxes and labour laws in local languages in every single country (and possibly more internal autonomous regions). Trade unions differ in every country so there's no central negotiations. Residence registration and ID is done independently in every single country, so you might be delayed by months when moving for work.

phtrivier 4y ago
I suspect that, in many parlementary systems where the results of elections would have looked the same as the last European Parlement Election (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_elect...) , lacking a clear majority, or a clear coalition, the "head of state" (prime minister, chancelor, etc...) might very well have been a "non candidate", chosen as a compromise between the various parties. This is what we have in the EU at the moment - VDL as a "compromise" between Center-Right, Center-Left, Center, "South-bloc" and "North-bloc", coming from the party that won the election. None of the other major party candidates would have been able to form a commission (maybe Margarethe Vestager, but then the party arriving third would have won, which would have been weird and undemocratic to some.) I know some people would rather have the head of the commission elected directly - but, seing the crazyness of French system, completely centered on the election of a single person, I'm starting to reconsider... As for being a "puppet state", well... I guess we come back at the US by forcing people to implement GDPR popups ;) ?
- _vbnz 4y ago
  The main thing is that having them elected directly would mean holding an election across all EU countries - and I think that would be great for European unity. Like have French, Spanish, Greek, Swedes, Germans, etc. all debating and voting - and people would actually know the background of who the President of the EU commission is! Right now VdL has just failed upwards, being a terrible politician in Germany who was moved to the EU to get her out of domestic politics, and it seems she'll be NATO leader soon (again unelected). The ePrivacy Directive is different from the GDPR btw. The GDPR is actually not so bad tbh - although a bit too over-reaching, but at least it's a step towards making some things like I mentioned in the previous comment a bit more uniform.
  - yorwba 4y ago
    There will be an election across all EU countries in 2024, to decide the composition of the European Parliament. The previous one was held in 2019. That you apparently don't know that indicates that simply holding an EU-wide election doesn't guarantee sufficient debate.
    - nivenkos 4y ago
      But you vote for the parties in your country who form a bloc - it isn't really a vote across borders in the same way as a Presidential election would be. The Parliament is also very weak and can't propose laws, etc.
      - phtrivier 3y ago
        This seems pretty common in "fédérations" (or similar systems.) I guess Californians and Texans can both vote for local politicians under the same party, but nothing force the politicians to vote together once in Congress ? Also, I think as a bloc, the EU is not entirely ready yet for, say, French people to directly vote for non French people. But who knows. As for the balance of powers in the EU, it's far from perfect. But coming from France, who am I to judge ?
  - phtrivier 4y ago
    > The main thing is that having them elected directly would mean holding an election across all EU countries - and I think that would be great for European unity. I'm not sure I get your point. The European Parlement Election _is_ held accross all EU contries "almost" at the same time. It's spread accross a few days to respect the voting tradition of each member state, but the campaign very much happen at the same time for everyone. There were debates between the "heads", but there you hit the language barrier - we're not going to see a Spanish candidate arguing with a German one in English on French Television any time soon. > Like have French, Spanish, Greek, Swedes, Germans, etc. all debating and voting - and people would actually know the background of who the President of the EU commission is! To be honest, the 2019 elections were the first time it _did_ felt like the voting was occuring across the bloc. Each cross-european party had a few clear faces for candidates for the Commission, beforehand. Had the PPE received a clear majority, we would be talking about the Webber Commission - except, no-one really won, and they had to pick a compromise candidate. > Right now VdL has just failed upwards She is the grand tradition of the parlementary leaders chosen because they were "the least worse alternative", and "bad enough to be acceptable by everyone." Again, I don't know if it is structural, or just the result of an election without a clear majority. I understand this is an issue because she was only known in Germany. Would it have been better to at least choose a "compromise candidate" that had previous EU-level experience ? Ironically, you have to notice that the British People did not vote for Sunak either ;) I don't know what's the structural way to avoid "an elected body not agreeing on a name chosen before the election". Do you stick to the name, until you reach gridlock ? Do you setup your elections to ensure a clear majority, artifically reducing the diversity of your electorate until you have a duopoly ?

phtrivier 4y ago

I suspect that, in many parlementary systems where the results of elections would have looked the same as the last European Parlement Election (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_elect...) , lacking a clear majority, or a clear coalition, the "head of state" (prime minister, chancelor, etc...) might very well have been a "non candidate", chosen as a compromise between the various parties. This is what we have in the EU at the moment - VDL as a "compromise" between Center-Right, Center-Left, Center, "South-bloc" and "North-bloc", coming from the party that won the election. None of the other major party candidates would have been able to form a commission (maybe Margarethe Vestager, but then the party arriving third would have won, which would have been weird and undemocratic to some.) I know some people would rather have the head of the commission elected directly - but, seing the crazyness of French system, completely centered on the election of a single person, I'm starting to reconsider... As for being a "puppet state", well... I guess we come back at the US by forcing people to implement GDPR popups ;) ?

_vbnz 4y ago
The main thing is that having them elected directly would mean holding an election across all EU countries - and I think that would be great for European unity. Like have French, Spanish, Greek, Swedes, Germans, etc. all debating and voting - and people would actually know the background of who the President of the EU commission is! Right now VdL has just failed upwards, being a terrible politician in Germany who was moved to the EU to get her out of domestic politics, and it seems she'll be NATO leader soon (again unelected). The ePrivacy Directive is different from the GDPR btw. The GDPR is actually not so bad tbh - although a bit too over-reaching, but at least it's a step towards making some things like I mentioned in the previous comment a bit more uniform.
- yorwba 4y ago
  There will be an election across all EU countries in 2024, to decide the composition of the European Parliament. The previous one was held in 2019. That you apparently don't know that indicates that simply holding an EU-wide election doesn't guarantee sufficient debate.
  - nivenkos 4y ago
    But you vote for the parties in your country who form a bloc - it isn't really a vote across borders in the same way as a Presidential election would be. The Parliament is also very weak and can't propose laws, etc.
    - phtrivier 3y ago
      This seems pretty common in "fédérations" (or similar systems.) I guess Californians and Texans can both vote for local politicians under the same party, but nothing force the politicians to vote together once in Congress ? Also, I think as a bloc, the EU is not entirely ready yet for, say, French people to directly vote for non French people. But who knows. As for the balance of powers in the EU, it's far from perfect. But coming from France, who am I to judge ?
- phtrivier 4y ago
  > The main thing is that having them elected directly would mean holding an election across all EU countries - and I think that would be great for European unity. I'm not sure I get your point. The European Parlement Election _is_ held accross all EU contries "almost" at the same time. It's spread accross a few days to respect the voting tradition of each member state, but the campaign very much happen at the same time for everyone. There were debates between the "heads", but there you hit the language barrier - we're not going to see a Spanish candidate arguing with a German one in English on French Television any time soon. > Like have French, Spanish, Greek, Swedes, Germans, etc. all debating and voting - and people would actually know the background of who the President of the EU commission is! To be honest, the 2019 elections were the first time it _did_ felt like the voting was occuring across the bloc. Each cross-european party had a few clear faces for candidates for the Commission, beforehand. Had the PPE received a clear majority, we would be talking about the Webber Commission - except, no-one really won, and they had to pick a compromise candidate. > Right now VdL has just failed upwards She is the grand tradition of the parlementary leaders chosen because they were "the least worse alternative", and "bad enough to be acceptable by everyone." Again, I don't know if it is structural, or just the result of an election without a clear majority. I understand this is an issue because she was only known in Germany. Would it have been better to at least choose a "compromise candidate" that had previous EU-level experience ? Ironically, you have to notice that the British People did not vote for Sunak either ;) I don't know what's the structural way to avoid "an elected body not agreeing on a name chosen before the election". Do you stick to the name, until you reach gridlock ? Do you setup your elections to ensure a clear majority, artifically reducing the diversity of your electorate until you have a duopoly ?