4 ms·

This. Plus: people here calling for Raspberry or Synology do not know 'average' users - People dont know what is ethernet - Most people cant navigate GUI of

by throwaway2056 4y ago

This. Plus: people here calling for Raspberry or Synology do not know 'average' users - People dont know what is ethernet - Most people cant navigate GUI of synology or other stuff - Some of the hn gurus need to work as CS for a week. People get confused what USB-A or USB-C cable. - For hn-gurus with Rpi/nextcloud: These products are sold to average joe that has no clue about tech. - for average joe people, google is internet, facebook is family and whatsapp is chat. - The sales guy that sold it just works for commission. Capitalism. - Same is for WD. They sold the product for $100 8TB so that is the quality one expects.

quaintdev 4y ago
Then we need to work on it to make self hosting as ubiquitous as a TV. Imagine a future where all your photos, videos stay at your house on a box and others who have access can view them from anywhere. The corporations are working in direction where this is never possible but given how they all deal with data this is the only future that will be secure and makes sense.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >Imagine a future where all your photos, videos stay at your house on a box and others who have access can view them from anywhere. We are slowly working towards such a future and common users by and large will appreciate it, but it's not going to be the future most tech nerds envision it to be.
  - copper-float 4y ago
    What are you referring to?
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      Basically: Convenience and customizability are mutually exclusive. We as tech nerds value our ability to power user, but this is quite simply at odds with the interests of common users. Things like further and further abstractioning of file systems, further and further integrations of operating systems with online accounts and other internet services, further and further "appliance"ing of computer systems, etc.
- lolc 4y ago
  In what ways will the average homebox be more secure than the average cloud hosting?
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > In what ways will the average homebox be more secure than the average cloud hosting? No third parties will be automatically rummaging through your files and using it to stuff a dossier with details about you to sell or exploit for profit. The webserver in your living room will only host your personal files, so it isn't a single target that can grant a hacker massive amounts of valuable data from hundreds of thousands of users at once if they can manage to get in. If a hacker takes the time to break into your server, they maybe get a handful of baby photos and MP3s, but before that they'd have to somehow know about and find your server specifically in the first place. When your server gets hacked, you aren't going to pretend it isn't happening, or lie to yourself about what happened, and you won't have to spend days wondering what the impact to you was, and you won't bend over backwards to try to downplay that impact for the sake of your shareholders.
    - fauigerzigerk 4y ago
      >The webserver in your living room will only host your personal files, so it isn't a single target that can grant a hacker massive amounts of valuable data from hundreds of thousands of users at once if they can manage to get in. Just because it's not running under a single domain doesn't mean hundereds of thousands of users can't be affected by a single vulnerability. If everyone was using Nextcloud on Ubuntu and a vulnerability is found somewhere in that stack then attackers could easily scan the internet for unpatched installations. Happens all the time with corporate IT. Also, people don't just store family photos and MP3s. They also store intimate photos, financial data, company data, health data, scans of passports and other official documents, utility bills, plenty that can be used as proof of identity and proof of address. If you had access to the contents of my hard drive you could easily impersonate me in almost every context.
      - autoexec 4y ago
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> Most people cant navigate GUI of synology or other stuff Sad non-average user noises.
Dalewyn 4y ago
>People dont know what is ethernet Correction: People don't know what is computer.
eitland 4y ago
Question is for each of us who are experts in the field: do we continue to encourage this trend or do we encourage people to learn? I grew up in a time and an environment where I felt everyone taught and everyone shared. It feels like more and more everything is made harder despite everything really being more accessible than before - if you only know.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  It's not even a question because this has played out time and again: The commons value simplicity and convenience, and products will naturally gravitate towards such offerings over time as technologies evolve. I firmly believe that "appliance" computers like Macbooks, Chromebooks, game consoles, and smartphones are the future and ultimate destination of personal computing. Much as I hate to say it: Fucking nobody cares about being a power user, about messing with their computer. For the commons, a computer is merely just another appliance and tool to serve and enable bigger interests, a means to an end. We should also remember that, eventually, the time will come when we become the technologically illiterate luddites, unable to "get" the new fangled tech that the youngsters will immediately master as they point and laugh at our seeming ineptitude.
  - freehorse 4y ago
    > Fucking nobody cares about being a power user, about messing with their computer. No, people care only to have somebody that cares around, so that they can solve their issues. Do you think people with macbooks etc never encounter issues with software/hardware and all just work automatically always without having to care about anything? This is an illusion, and in the end of the day you (or someone) has to put the extra work. It is similar to what happened to electronic and other devices through the years, everything becomes more user friendly but also more complex and opaque the same time, so younger generations were getting more and more clueless how these devices worked. I do not know how things will go now, but I see the same trend as computers, I do not see the older generation becoming technologically illiterate luddites (ok I do mot use tik tok so maybe that makes me one) as much as I see that the the big part of the younger generations not knowing much more than touching stuff on a screen. I do not see that the proportion of more technically adept people increased at all. But yeah, maybe there is some new neurotechnology thing or whatever at some point that changes things, but not something I see with present tech.

quaintdev 4y ago

Then we need to work on it to make self hosting as ubiquitous as a TV. Imagine a future where all your photos, videos stay at your house on a box and others who have access can view them from anywhere. The corporations are working in direction where this is never possible but given how they all deal with data this is the only future that will be secure and makes sense.

Dalewyn 4y ago
>Imagine a future where all your photos, videos stay at your house on a box and others who have access can view them from anywhere. We are slowly working towards such a future and common users by and large will appreciate it, but it's not going to be the future most tech nerds envision it to be.
- copper-float 4y ago
  What are you referring to?
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    Basically: Convenience and customizability are mutually exclusive. We as tech nerds value our ability to power user, but this is quite simply at odds with the interests of common users. Things like further and further abstractioning of file systems, further and further integrations of operating systems with online accounts and other internet services, further and further "appliance"ing of computer systems, etc.
lolc 4y ago
In what ways will the average homebox be more secure than the average cloud hosting?
- autoexec 4y ago
  > In what ways will the average homebox be more secure than the average cloud hosting? No third parties will be automatically rummaging through your files and using it to stuff a dossier with details about you to sell or exploit for profit. The webserver in your living room will only host your personal files, so it isn't a single target that can grant a hacker massive amounts of valuable data from hundreds of thousands of users at once if they can manage to get in. If a hacker takes the time to break into your server, they maybe get a handful of baby photos and MP3s, but before that they'd have to somehow know about and find your server specifically in the first place. When your server gets hacked, you aren't going to pretend it isn't happening, or lie to yourself about what happened, and you won't have to spend days wondering what the impact to you was, and you won't bend over backwards to try to downplay that impact for the sake of your shareholders.
  - fauigerzigerk 4y ago
    >The webserver in your living room will only host your personal files, so it isn't a single target that can grant a hacker massive amounts of valuable data from hundreds of thousands of users at once if they can manage to get in. Just because it's not running under a single domain doesn't mean hundereds of thousands of users can't be affected by a single vulnerability. If everyone was using Nextcloud on Ubuntu and a vulnerability is found somewhere in that stack then attackers could easily scan the internet for unpatched installations. Happens all the time with corporate IT. Also, people don't just store family photos and MP3s. They also store intimate photos, financial data, company data, health data, scans of passports and other official documents, utility bills, plenty that can be used as proof of identity and proof of address. If you had access to the contents of my hard drive you could easily impersonate me in almost every context.
    - autoexec 4y ago

justsomehnguy 4y ago

> Most people cant navigate GUI of synology or other stuff Sad non-average user noises.

Dalewyn 4y ago

>People dont know what is ethernet Correction: People don't know what is computer.

eitland 4y ago

Question is for each of us who are experts in the field: do we continue to encourage this trend or do we encourage people to learn? I grew up in a time and an environment where I felt everyone taught and everyone shared. It feels like more and more everything is made harder despite everything really being more accessible than before - if you only know.

Dalewyn 4y ago
It's not even a question because this has played out time and again: The commons value simplicity and convenience, and products will naturally gravitate towards such offerings over time as technologies evolve. I firmly believe that "appliance" computers like Macbooks, Chromebooks, game consoles, and smartphones are the future and ultimate destination of personal computing. Much as I hate to say it: Fucking nobody cares about being a power user, about messing with their computer. For the commons, a computer is merely just another appliance and tool to serve and enable bigger interests, a means to an end. We should also remember that, eventually, the time will come when we become the technologically illiterate luddites, unable to "get" the new fangled tech that the youngsters will immediately master as they point and laugh at our seeming ineptitude.
- freehorse 4y ago
  > Fucking nobody cares about being a power user, about messing with their computer. No, people care only to have somebody that cares around, so that they can solve their issues. Do you think people with macbooks etc never encounter issues with software/hardware and all just work automatically always without having to care about anything? This is an illusion, and in the end of the day you (or someone) has to put the extra work. It is similar to what happened to electronic and other devices through the years, everything becomes more user friendly but also more complex and opaque the same time, so younger generations were getting more and more clueless how these devices worked. I do not know how things will go now, but I see the same trend as computers, I do not see the older generation becoming technologically illiterate luddites (ok I do mot use tik tok so maybe that makes me one) as much as I see that the the big part of the younger generations not knowing much more than touching stuff on a screen. I do not see that the proportion of more technically adept people increased at all. But yeah, maybe there is some new neurotechnology thing or whatever at some point that changes things, but not something I see with present tech.