5 ms·

Do you have any data on this?

by Eisenstein 4y ago

anticodon 4y ago
[flagged]
- rob74 4y ago
  The article you linked is also an example of "spinning" things to make them sound worse than they are: "They are now prompting BASF to lay off thousands of workers and shut down sections of its flagship facility in Ludwigshafen, Germany" - the "thousands of workers" (actually 2600, just enough to qualify as "thousands") are worldwide, in Ludwigshafen itself it's 700 over two years (according to https://www.chemietechnik.de/service-standorte/basf-schliesst-neun-anlagen-und-baut-700-stellen-in-ludwigshafen-ab-486.html https://www.chemietechnik.de/service-standorte/basf-schliess... - actually the number of 700 is also mentioned at the very end of the c&en article).
- MoSattler 4y ago
  One "example" is not data.
- starfallg 4y ago
  BASF is moving some production to China, but even that seems to be a bad decision now with the breakdown of trust with the authoritarian countries pushing for a multi-polar world. Germany is in bed with China in the same way it was in bed with Russia, and you can see how that went.
- HyperSane 4y ago
  "But it's never mentioned in such oh-so-wonderful super-objective democratic example of western journalism as this Economist article, LOL. The western journalism started to hit the lowest bar set by third-world countries in the last 10-15 years. Or maybe it always was the same propaganda, I just never paid attention and blindly believed it until around 2008-2011." This has very strong "old man yells at clouds" energy. So where does such an incredibly enlightened person such as yourself get news from?
vladvasiliu 4y ago
In France, one glassmaker stopped production: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/french-glassmaker-duralex-stops-production-over-brutal-crazy-energy-costs https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/french-glassmaker-duralex-st... Another manufacturer of food-related products closed, too: https://www.europe1.fr/economie/le-groupe-cofigeo-william-saurin-garbit-raynal-va-arreter-80-de-sa-production-en-2023-4152817 https://www.europe1.fr/economie/le-groupe-cofigeo-william-sa... A quick search brings up others, but in French.
- asimpletune 4y ago
  It says they stopped for four months, not permanently and definitely didn’t move to the USA
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    "Four months" means the winter, right? So, it must have helped with "lowering winter consumption". Fair point about moving to the US, though. --- Edit regarding the US specifically (unfortunately, French only): Here's Safran suspending a factory project near Lyon and increasing production in the US and Malaysia: https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/air-defense/safran-met-sur-pause-son-projet-dusine-a-lyon-a-cause-du-cout-de-lenergie-1873981 https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/air-defense/safra... Also, BASF announcing a "cost-cutting" plan in Europe and increasing production in the US: https://www.europe1.fr/economie/prix-de-lenergie-delocalisations-comment-les-etats-unis-menacent-lindustrie-europeenne-4151114 https://www.europe1.fr/economie/prix-de-lenergie-delocalisat...
    - KptMarchewa 4y ago
      Highest gas prices were in August, not winter.
      - vladvasiliu 4y ago
        That's correct, but the TFA is about how Europe cut energy consumption this winter. I think the reason is twofold: 1. Industries can probably not afford to cut production immediately 2. At least in France, there were worries about gas availability for the winter. The government tried to have industries lower their consumption to not run out of the reserves during the winter.
badpun 4y ago
Largest Polish producer on fertilizers (Azoty S.A.) completely stopped prouction during summer and autumn last year due to absurdly high gas prices.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  Temporary measures for a time when gas cost 10x more than now.

Do you have any data on this?

anticodon 4y ago

[flagged]

rob74 4y ago
The article you linked is also an example of "spinning" things to make them sound worse than they are: "They are now prompting BASF to lay off thousands of workers and shut down sections of its flagship facility in Ludwigshafen, Germany" - the "thousands of workers" (actually 2600, just enough to qualify as "thousands") are worldwide, in Ludwigshafen itself it's 700 over two years (according to https://www.chemietechnik.de/service-standorte/basf-schliesst-neun-anlagen-und-baut-700-stellen-in-ludwigshafen-ab-486.html https://www.chemietechnik.de/service-standorte/basf-schliess... - actually the number of 700 is also mentioned at the very end of the c&en article).
MoSattler 4y ago
One "example" is not data.
starfallg 4y ago
BASF is moving some production to China, but even that seems to be a bad decision now with the breakdown of trust with the authoritarian countries pushing for a multi-polar world. Germany is in bed with China in the same way it was in bed with Russia, and you can see how that went.
HyperSane 4y ago
"But it's never mentioned in such oh-so-wonderful super-objective democratic example of western journalism as this Economist article, LOL. The western journalism started to hit the lowest bar set by third-world countries in the last 10-15 years. Or maybe it always was the same propaganda, I just never paid attention and blindly believed it until around 2008-2011." This has very strong "old man yells at clouds" energy. So where does such an incredibly enlightened person such as yourself get news from?

vladvasiliu 4y ago

In France, one glassmaker stopped production: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/french-glassmaker-duralex-stops-production-over-brutal-crazy-energy-costs https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/french-glassmaker-duralex-st... Another manufacturer of food-related products closed, too: https://www.europe1.fr/economie/le-groupe-cofigeo-william-saurin-garbit-raynal-va-arreter-80-de-sa-production-en-2023-4152817 https://www.europe1.fr/economie/le-groupe-cofigeo-william-sa... A quick search brings up others, but in French.

asimpletune 4y ago
It says they stopped for four months, not permanently and definitely didn’t move to the USA
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  "Four months" means the winter, right? So, it must have helped with "lowering winter consumption". Fair point about moving to the US, though. --- Edit regarding the US specifically (unfortunately, French only): Here's Safran suspending a factory project near Lyon and increasing production in the US and Malaysia: https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/air-defense/safran-met-sur-pause-son-projet-dusine-a-lyon-a-cause-du-cout-de-lenergie-1873981 https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/air-defense/safra... Also, BASF announcing a "cost-cutting" plan in Europe and increasing production in the US: https://www.europe1.fr/economie/prix-de-lenergie-delocalisations-comment-les-etats-unis-menacent-lindustrie-europeenne-4151114 https://www.europe1.fr/economie/prix-de-lenergie-delocalisat...
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    Highest gas prices were in August, not winter.
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      That's correct, but the TFA is about how Europe cut energy consumption this winter. I think the reason is twofold: 1. Industries can probably not afford to cut production immediately 2. At least in France, there were worries about gas availability for the winter. The government tried to have industries lower their consumption to not run out of the reserves during the winter.

badpun 4y ago

Largest Polish producer on fertilizers (Azoty S.A.) completely stopped prouction during summer and autumn last year due to absurdly high gas prices.

KptMarchewa 4y ago
Temporary measures for a time when gas cost 10x more than now.