4 ms·

If you get really angry about the choices other people make for their own work, you're doing life wrong.

zobzu 15y ago
if its your company's people choice, and thus that impacts you directly, you're actually doing life right.
mjwalshe 15y ago
Amen - I quickly learnt node.js to build http handler for the callback element of a tool I am building using authority labs - for what we need its the dogs nuts.
- fennecfoxen 15y ago
  Yeah; maybe if you're using it to build a Big Fancy Webapp it's actually a stupid idea, like if you use a Swiss Army Knife to do carpentry and build a home, you're probably doing it wrong. I'm using node for a small tool to analyze network traffic. The author of this drivel can cope. :P
zzzeek 15y ago
Approaches that become popular and highly publicized definitely impact everyone else's work in that field. Teams decide to migrate to those approaches, discarding others, based on perceived popularity, shallow impressions, small amounts of experimentation. Often, this is all we have to go on. But team members who have an intuition that the approach may have more problems than are first visible now have a choice, to either silently go along with the new decision, or to document their reservations. The anger is an issue though. It's a product of when you perceive a waterfall of hype crashing over your own perception of better judgment (please note: perception. subjective viewpoint). It's worth it to try adjusting those perceptions since anger doesn't really get you anywhere.
- bunderbunder 15y ago
  Couldn't agree more. We're all aware of the Internet Hype Machine. We've all been duped by it before. Heck, my big project today consists of frantic backpedaling from an overly hasty decision, prompted by the IHM, to use SQLite in a project that had no business being based on SQLite. We should all be open to hearing criticism about choices to use X or Y technology. -But- if you start by saying, "You're so stupid," then the person you're talking to will start by thinking, "You're such a jerk." And nobody really pays much attention to the opinions of people they think are jerks.
  - DevX101 15y ago
    Socratic method for the win. Keep asking questions until THEY come the conclusion that what they were thinking was a dumb idea.
    - to3m 15y ago
      Do you think?
    - awj 15y ago
      That works, but I think it's overkill. Generally the "don't argue like a jerk" method is sufficient.
      - bunderbunder 15y ago
        And if you aren't good at it it's easy to come off as condescending. Thereby also causing you to be written off as a jerk. Socrates was smart. He was also executed for being irritating.
        batista 15y ago
        No, he was executed for "advocating for new gods and against the gods of the city" (that was the actual charge). You know, much alike someone insulting Mongo, Rails or Node in certain communities... (or Java, CL etc in others).
pnathan 15y ago
Eh. It's not limited in scope to someone else's work. I have done a decent review of a number historical computer science papers, I can confidently point to a number of things that have been pointlessly reinvented over the years at least once, if not 2-3 times. It's like, why are people using these really bad technologies (node for instance)? There are are solid and advanced technologies that have done all these things, been tested, used, and developed over a long period of time, without the limitations of this newness and lack of features/testing/experience. As a stupid example, a tracing simulator describing variable usage and coverage were commercially available for Fortran in the late 60s. I haven't heard of similar systems for C or C++ in my casual reading on C and C++. Perl has spent years working towards something that is starting to look a good deal like Lisp in Perl 6. For node.js and golang and other asynchronous & message-based languages/platforms, see occam. Why can't we look into the 70s and build new technologies instead of reinventing the same ones over and over again? That's why I get a bit miffed about new stuff that is the same as the old stuff, except Now For Modern Computers/The Web/Mobile/blah.
- hello_moto 15y ago
  Because people need something to work on for money, fame, or curiosity (less the latter and more of the former these days).
- berntb 15y ago
  >>Perl has spent years working towards something that is starting to look a good deal like Lisp in Perl 6. Good example of your point, this is one of the things frustrating me in life. Most of the scripting languages have long been working on becoming larger subsets of Lisp. They still mostly haven't gotten close in e.g. efficient compilation. But sure, it would be cool if the Perl 6 e.g. really implemented a good macro system without sexpr functionality. Something to look forward to. I really don't understand how the Lisp people failed taking over the world. (Sigh, I should have helped instead of being sidetracked after univ. :-( Maybe I should start looking into Perl 6 development.)

zobzu 15y ago

if its your company's people choice, and thus that impacts you directly, you're actually doing life right.

Amen - I quickly learnt node.js to build http handler for the callback element of a tool I am building using authority labs - for what we need its the dogs nuts.

fennecfoxen 15y ago
Yeah; maybe if you're using it to build a Big Fancy Webapp it's actually a stupid idea, like if you use a Swiss Army Knife to do carpentry and build a home, you're probably doing it wrong. I'm using node for a small tool to analyze network traffic. The author of this drivel can cope. :P

zzzeek 15y ago

Approaches that become popular and highly publicized definitely impact everyone else's work in that field. Teams decide to migrate to those approaches, discarding others, based on perceived popularity, shallow impressions, small amounts of experimentation. Often, this is all we have to go on. But team members who have an intuition that the approach may have more problems than are first visible now have a choice, to either silently go along with the new decision, or to document their reservations. The anger is an issue though. It's a product of when you perceive a waterfall of hype crashing over your own perception of better judgment (please note: perception. subjective viewpoint). It's worth it to try adjusting those perceptions since anger doesn't really get you anywhere.

bunderbunder 15y ago
Couldn't agree more. We're all aware of the Internet Hype Machine. We've all been duped by it before. Heck, my big project today consists of frantic backpedaling from an overly hasty decision, prompted by the IHM, to use SQLite in a project that had no business being based on SQLite. We should all be open to hearing criticism about choices to use X or Y technology. -But- if you start by saying, "You're so stupid," then the person you're talking to will start by thinking, "You're such a jerk." And nobody really pays much attention to the opinions of people they think are jerks.
- DevX101 15y ago
  Socratic method for the win. Keep asking questions until THEY come the conclusion that what they were thinking was a dumb idea.
  - to3m 15y ago
    Do you think?
  - awj 15y ago
    That works, but I think it's overkill. Generally the "don't argue like a jerk" method is sufficient.
    - bunderbunder 15y ago
      And if you aren't good at it it's easy to come off as condescending. Thereby also causing you to be written off as a jerk. Socrates was smart. He was also executed for being irritating.
      - batista 15y ago
        No, he was executed for "advocating for new gods and against the gods of the city" (that was the actual charge). You know, much alike someone insulting Mongo, Rails or Node in certain communities... (or Java, CL etc in others).

pnathan 15y ago

Eh. It's not limited in scope to someone else's work. I have done a decent review of a number historical computer science papers, I can confidently point to a number of things that have been pointlessly reinvented over the years at least once, if not 2-3 times. It's like, why are people using these really bad technologies (node for instance)? There are are solid and advanced technologies that have done all these things, been tested, used, and developed over a long period of time, without the limitations of this newness and lack of features/testing/experience. As a stupid example, a tracing simulator describing variable usage and coverage were commercially available for Fortran in the late 60s. I haven't heard of similar systems for C or C++ in my casual reading on C and C++. Perl has spent years working towards something that is starting to look a good deal like Lisp in Perl 6. For node.js and golang and other asynchronous & message-based languages/platforms, see occam. Why can't we look into the 70s and build new technologies instead of reinventing the same ones over and over again? That's why I get a bit miffed about new stuff that is the same as the old stuff, except Now For Modern Computers/The Web/Mobile/blah.

hello_moto 15y ago
Because people need something to work on for money, fame, or curiosity (less the latter and more of the former these days).
berntb 15y ago
>>Perl has spent years working towards something that is starting to look a good deal like Lisp in Perl 6. Good example of your point, this is one of the things frustrating me in life. Most of the scripting languages have long been working on becoming larger subsets of Lisp. They still mostly haven't gotten close in e.g. efficient compilation. But sure, it would be cool if the Perl 6 e.g. really implemented a good macro system without sexpr functionality. Something to look forward to. I really don't understand how the Lisp people failed taking over the world. (Sigh, I should have helped instead of being sidetracked after univ. :-( Maybe I should start looking into Perl 6 development.)