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I will say that I take issue with the fact that several of the more popular trails/areas where permits are issued by lottery. Recreation.gov charges a $10 lotte

I will say that I take issue with the fact that several of the more popular trails/areas where permits are issued by lottery. Recreation.gov charges a $10 lottery fee, which you pay even if you don’t get a permit, on top of the fee for the actual permit.

hollandays 3y ago
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- cactacea 3y ago
  https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-enhance-permitting-process-wave-coyote-buttes-north https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-enhance-permitting-pro... https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 Note that the application fees are separate from the permit itself as well: Application Fee: A non-refundable $9.00 lottery fee is required for each lottery application. Recreation Fee: If selected in the lottery, a recreation fee of $7.00 per person or dog is required. This fee is paid online when filling in additional information to complete the process after successfully winning. Everyone, regardless of age, must be included in the permit. This includes infants that are not walking. Payment of recreation fees is only required if a permit is awarded through the lottery.
cactacea 3y ago
They're raking in the cash on these lotteries for places like The Wave. This is 100% my problem with it as well. https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 Application Fee: A non-refundable $9.00 lottery fee is required for each lottery application. I went to the lottery a few times in Kanab and never got a permit. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll probably never get one now.
- tcrenshaw 3y ago
  How else would you suggest they do it? Demand has out placed the supply, it's either they charge a shitload, putting it out of reach for all but the elites, or put it behind a lottery.
  - q845712 3y ago
    the lottery itself is reasonable but $9 to participate in a digital drawing only feels ok if i think that around 90% of that is going to the national park. - It seems like what this article is saying is that you're paying $9 (edit: $5) to the contractor who runs the website, has a monopoly on the lottery system, and gets to set the lottery price. hence the ticketmaster comparison. I'm pretty sympathetic to the argument that these drawings should be extremely inexpensive ($1?) and there should be some transparancy where the fee goes. Also not mentioned in the article - I'm most familiar with how Yosemite and the parks in the sierras do it, but in those parks for popular trails there's a 6-month-in-advance lottery system, but there's also something like 10% of the quota reserved for 1-day-in-advance walk-up tickets only. So you either have to win a lottery that favors the preppy planners, OR be willing to wake up in the middle of the night and stand outside a park office for a few hours until they open. Not perfect, but it gives some options.

hollandays 3y ago

[flagged]

cactacea 3y ago
https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-enhance-permitting-process-wave-coyote-buttes-north https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-enhance-permitting-pro... https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 Note that the application fees are separate from the permit itself as well: Application Fee: A non-refundable $9.00 lottery fee is required for each lottery application. Recreation Fee: If selected in the lottery, a recreation fee of $7.00 per person or dog is required. This fee is paid online when filling in additional information to complete the process after successfully winning. Everyone, regardless of age, must be included in the permit. This includes infants that are not walking. Payment of recreation fees is only required if a permit is awarded through the lottery.

cactacea 3y ago

They're raking in the cash on these lotteries for places like The Wave. This is 100% my problem with it as well. https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4251909 Application Fee: A non-refundable $9.00 lottery fee is required for each lottery application. I went to the lottery a few times in Kanab and never got a permit. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll probably never get one now.

tcrenshaw 3y ago
How else would you suggest they do it? Demand has out placed the supply, it's either they charge a shitload, putting it out of reach for all but the elites, or put it behind a lottery.
- q845712 3y ago
  the lottery itself is reasonable but $9 to participate in a digital drawing only feels ok if i think that around 90% of that is going to the national park. - It seems like what this article is saying is that you're paying $9 (edit: $5) to the contractor who runs the website, has a monopoly on the lottery system, and gets to set the lottery price. hence the ticketmaster comparison. I'm pretty sympathetic to the argument that these drawings should be extremely inexpensive ($1?) and there should be some transparancy where the fee goes. Also not mentioned in the article - I'm most familiar with how Yosemite and the parks in the sierras do it, but in those parks for popular trails there's a 6-month-in-advance lottery system, but there's also something like 10% of the quota reserved for 1-day-in-advance walk-up tickets only. So you either have to win a lottery that favors the preppy planners, OR be willing to wake up in the middle of the night and stand outside a park office for a few hours until they open. Not perfect, but it gives some options.