5 ms·

I gotta agree with this. If I'm waiting at 2am for a subway in NYC for 1 hr, versus waiting 6 hours for the first subway to kick back in if it's say, 12:01am i

I gotta agree with this. If I'm waiting at 2am for a subway in NYC for 1 hr, versus waiting 6 hours for the first subway to kick back in if it's say, 12:01am in Japan or South Korea? Then IMHO it's better to just eat the cost, take a taxi, feel the burn of $100 to get home vs. say $2-4 for a 3am subway ride, and give the NYC MTA subway system time to work on repairs, renovations, additions, etc. 24 hour subway leaves no time at all to do any maintenance. I really, really, really really really wish that NYC would just straight up plagiarize Japan or South Korea for their metro systems. Even their "next stop" displays are far superior than what NYC currently has. One can dream...

decafninja 4y ago
NYC recently replaced some of their subway cars with brand new ones. I’m in Seoul right now as I type this. Was in Taipei a few days ago too. The brand new NYC subway cars are already filthier than the older Seoul and Taipei ones.
- eric-hu 4y ago
  I lived in Taipei for about 3 years. Technically it's against the rules in both the NYC metro and Taipei metro to eat on the train. Technically it's a weakly enforced rule in both places. A lot more people eat on the train in NYC than Taipei.
  - decafninja 4y ago
    I would also say the behavior extends to more than just eating.
  - asdff 4y ago
    I don't know why they don't at least put a trash can on the train. If people are going to litter anyhow why not at least provide the off chance that hey they might toss their leftover food into the bin, instead of letting it roll all over the train for the next 16 hours. It's like the great ashtray removal in the last few decades. People aren't going to quit smoking because you took away the ashtrays, they will just toss their cigarettes on the ground where there used to be an ashtray.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Fire risk. Someone will toss a cigarette but in there and the next thing you know the train is on fire.
      - decafninja 4y ago
        And this being NYC, you know it’s bound to happen sooner or later.
  - pcurve 4y ago
    I once ate hamburger on an intercity train (Namba to Wakayama) in Japan because I hadn't eaten all day. The train was parked with its doors open awaiting for departure time. Just as I was taking another bite of sandwich, someone walks into the cart, sees me eating, and turns around and walks right out to walk over to the next car. How do I know it was me? There were only 2-3 people in the entire cart. Guess I should've known better.
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      If you were eating a basic (nothing exotic) rice ball (onigiri), they would not look twice. Can you guess why? Smell. (You also did not mention if fries were included.) My advice: Eat the hamburger on the platform and take the next train. Or, try something with almost no smell. It's common to see parents feeding onigiri to their kids on the train, even if it is "technically" (the best kind!) against the rules.
      - zamnos 4y ago
        And if they were eating durian, everyone else would gang up on them and throw them off the train.
        noisy_boy 4y ago
        Even a durian crazy country like Singapore explicitly bans them on public transport, definitely won't blame the Japanese :)
      - wrp 4y ago
        I never thought of it before, but I don't think there is any food you can buy at Japanese station-platform kiosks that really smells. Very different case in Korea. On long-distance trains, there is always that guy with a bag of dried octopus...
    - numpad0 4y ago
      Sometimes I’d shop around for a car or two for a perfect, heaven mandated seat for me, when the train isn’t leaving soon anyway. It should be no big deal, unless people are really keeping distance from you and standing in the next blocks of seats. That happens, like, a man with garbage bags is grumbling nonsense. Bags of fries and 551 takeouts at 5PM usually won’t trigger that… just appetites :p
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    Technically it's against the rules in ... the NYC metro This is incorrect. Google something like "can i eat on the nyc subway?" and you will find many articles telling you what is and is not allowed on the NYC subway. Eating and drinking is allowed. A NYTimes article from 2017[1] says the main reason to allow eating & drinking on the subway is for children who ride the metro to school. Many eat their breakfast on the train. There is a real public health concern that, if eating on the NYC subway was banned, many children would not eat breakfast before school. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/nyregion/mta-reconsidering-an-age-old-tradition-eating-on-the-subway.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/nyregion/mta-reconsiderin...
    - eric-hu 4y ago
      I stand corrected. This is probably a more authoritative source, though: https://new.mta.info/document/36821 https://new.mta.info/document/36821 But do note this: > (f) No person shall bring or carry onto a conveyance any liquid in an open container.
      - throwaway2037 4y ago
        Nice follow-up. During my short research, I was surprised to see they make a specific carve-out for drinks from an open container! I guess it makes sense, as the train might stop on short notice. Also, if you really think about it, it is weird to travel on a train drinking something from an open container(!). It would normally have a lid/cover.
        eric-hu 4y ago
        I’ve generally understood open containers to include drink containers with lids, at least for legal restrictions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-container_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-container_law > The possession of cans, bottles or flasks or other vessels containing an alcoholic beverage could potentially result in a violation of open container laws. > To be “open”, in most cases, means that some of the contents have been removed, the seal is broken, the cap is off or the alcohol is otherwise readily accessible. Even the wording above makes it sound as if interpretations can vary, though.
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    You technically have to pay to use the NYC subway too. You're also technically not allowed to smoke crack on it.
dcdc123 4y ago
Or just nap in a capsule for 4 hours before taking the first train home.
asdff 4y ago
NYC subway is basically a situation where the horse stable owners got their industry codified into the law. For example, there is a pension earning position on each train that is merely responsible for closing the doors, because this was needed with the technology of the time a century ago, but the transit workers union has ensured this good paying job will not be eliminated now that we have came up with ideas to solve the operator closing door issue (like a platform mirror). Now labor costs are twice as high for no good reason to run a train, since NYC subway needs to run them with two people while other transit agencies can run them with just one, or entirely autonomously even. Chances are there are a lot more positions like this, completely vestigial at this point, adding to overhead, but to be preserved seemingly until the end of time so that no one is told the bad news that their job no longer exists.
- guardiangod 4y ago
  I know about the duo-operators in MTA. Before I came to NYC I didn't understand it either. After I moved here and saw how violent and hostile people are towards the train, I actually came around on the duo-operations. If MTA doesn't do that it's likely many many people will be crushed by the doors, and you'd get a lot of broken trains. I never saw as many riders actively breaking the train doors in eg. Japan/HK/DC/Seattle/SF subway.
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    >If MTA doesn't do that it's likely many many people will be crushed by the doors Train doors look ominous, but are designed in a way to not seriously harm a human in a way.
    - guardiangod 4y ago
      Not the ones in NYC. I am telling you they hurt a lot more than ones say the Yamamoto Line's. I know people who got deep bruises from them.
      - decafninja 4y ago
throwaway2037 4y ago
24 hour subway leaves no time at all to do any maintenance. This is incorrect. The NYC subway has a huge amount of extra tracks (side tracks and local/express tracks). I would hazard a guess to say more than any other system in the world. (How many other systems in the world have so many local & express tracks? It is incredibly rare.) This allows them to run maintenance at night, while there are much fewer regular trains running. This is partly why you need to wait so long for a train between 2 AM and 6 AM. A long time ago when I lived in NYC, during these "dead hours", waiting at a station, I would frequently see maintenance trains passing through the station. To me, the real purpose of 24 hour train service is make the city a "24 hour city" -- for economic purposes. People working late shifts in office buildings (cleaners, maintenance) or factories (food, clothing, whatever) or restaurants/bars/nightlife can all use a very cheap, albeit slow, delayed, and low quality, metro 24 hours a day. What is strange to me: Why not replace nice service with bus service? It would be cheaper to run and they could spend more time maintaining the tracks below. Last question: How many 24x7x365 metro systems exist in the world? I struggle to think of five.
- carlivar 4y ago
  The whole system? Does the whole NYC system run? That's impressive. Chicago has 24/7 operation on the red and blue lines but the others are generally off from roughly 1-4am give or take a bit.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    Certainly all lines that enter Manhattan. Even the dreaded "G" line between Brooklyn and Queens runs 24x7x365, although you will be lucky to get one train per hour. You walk faster most nights. My guess: The (single) Staten Island line might stop for a few hours.
- liversage 4y ago
  The Copenhagen metro runs 24×7×365. It's also a driverless system.
  - 4y ago
pelagic_sky 4y ago
When I lived in Tokyo, and would miss the last train, I would walk as far as I could until I would give up and grab a cab. This would only happen because I was drinking out at the clubs and it would be entertaining at first, but once reality set in, it was time to grab a cab.
- m463 4y ago
  > once reality set in I wonder if that's a good way to work off the alcohol. When you start using up all the alcohol in your system, you start sobering up and then sobriety allows you to view reality. :)
zymhan 4y ago
> feel the burn of $100 to get home vs. say $2-4 Just so you know, this is not a choice most people can even consider. Mass transit isn't just to save you on an Uber, it's a public service.
- zpeti 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    Why would you say such a shitty thing?
    - zpeti 4y ago
      [flagged]
xbmcuser 4y ago
In a lot of cities where train/subway closes at night they have express bus service that take you from 1 part of the city to another and then you can take taxi from there. So with a properly planned public transport system it should not cost you $100 nor would you need to wait 6 hours.
comte7092 4y ago
>24 hour subway leaves no time at all to do any maintenance. I can guarantee you that they do maintenance 24/7. Having a break in service at night might help, but the idea that a system can complete all the required maintenance in a 3 hour window in the middle of the night is a bit silly. Many repairs take longer than that.

decafninja 4y ago

NYC recently replaced some of their subway cars with brand new ones. I’m in Seoul right now as I type this. Was in Taipei a few days ago too. The brand new NYC subway cars are already filthier than the older Seoul and Taipei ones.

eric-hu 4y ago
I lived in Taipei for about 3 years. Technically it's against the rules in both the NYC metro and Taipei metro to eat on the train. Technically it's a weakly enforced rule in both places. A lot more people eat on the train in NYC than Taipei.
- decafninja 4y ago
  I would also say the behavior extends to more than just eating.
- asdff 4y ago
  I don't know why they don't at least put a trash can on the train. If people are going to litter anyhow why not at least provide the off chance that hey they might toss their leftover food into the bin, instead of letting it roll all over the train for the next 16 hours. It's like the great ashtray removal in the last few decades. People aren't going to quit smoking because you took away the ashtrays, they will just toss their cigarettes on the ground where there used to be an ashtray.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Fire risk. Someone will toss a cigarette but in there and the next thing you know the train is on fire.
    - decafninja 4y ago
      And this being NYC, you know it’s bound to happen sooner or later.
- pcurve 4y ago
  I once ate hamburger on an intercity train (Namba to Wakayama) in Japan because I hadn't eaten all day. The train was parked with its doors open awaiting for departure time. Just as I was taking another bite of sandwich, someone walks into the cart, sees me eating, and turns around and walks right out to walk over to the next car. How do I know it was me? There were only 2-3 people in the entire cart. Guess I should've known better.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    If you were eating a basic (nothing exotic) rice ball (onigiri), they would not look twice. Can you guess why? Smell. (You also did not mention if fries were included.) My advice: Eat the hamburger on the platform and take the next train. Or, try something with almost no smell. It's common to see parents feeding onigiri to their kids on the train, even if it is "technically" (the best kind!) against the rules.
    - zamnos 4y ago
      And if they were eating durian, everyone else would gang up on them and throw them off the train.
      - noisy_boy 4y ago
        Even a durian crazy country like Singapore explicitly bans them on public transport, definitely won't blame the Japanese :)
    - wrp 4y ago
      I never thought of it before, but I don't think there is any food you can buy at Japanese station-platform kiosks that really smells. Very different case in Korea. On long-distance trains, there is always that guy with a bag of dried octopus...
  - numpad0 4y ago
    Sometimes I’d shop around for a car or two for a perfect, heaven mandated seat for me, when the train isn’t leaving soon anyway. It should be no big deal, unless people are really keeping distance from you and standing in the next blocks of seats. That happens, like, a man with garbage bags is grumbling nonsense. Bags of fries and 551 takeouts at 5PM usually won’t trigger that… just appetites :p
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  Technically it's against the rules in ... the NYC metro This is incorrect. Google something like "can i eat on the nyc subway?" and you will find many articles telling you what is and is not allowed on the NYC subway. Eating and drinking is allowed. A NYTimes article from 2017[1] says the main reason to allow eating & drinking on the subway is for children who ride the metro to school. Many eat their breakfast on the train. There is a real public health concern that, if eating on the NYC subway was banned, many children would not eat breakfast before school. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/nyregion/mta-reconsidering-an-age-old-tradition-eating-on-the-subway.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/nyregion/mta-reconsiderin...
  - eric-hu 4y ago
    I stand corrected. This is probably a more authoritative source, though: https://new.mta.info/document/36821 https://new.mta.info/document/36821 But do note this: > (f) No person shall bring or carry onto a conveyance any liquid in an open container.
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      Nice follow-up. During my short research, I was surprised to see they make a specific carve-out for drinks from an open container! I guess it makes sense, as the train might stop on short notice. Also, if you really think about it, it is weird to travel on a train drinking something from an open container(!). It would normally have a lid/cover.
      - eric-hu 4y ago
        I’ve generally understood open containers to include drink containers with lids, at least for legal restrictions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-container_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-container_law > The possession of cans, bottles or flasks or other vessels containing an alcoholic beverage could potentially result in a violation of open container laws. > To be “open”, in most cases, means that some of the contents have been removed, the seal is broken, the cap is off or the alcohol is otherwise readily accessible. Even the wording above makes it sound as if interpretations can vary, though.
- _dain_ 4y ago
  You technically have to pay to use the NYC subway too. You're also technically not allowed to smoke crack on it.

dcdc123 4y ago

Or just nap in a capsule for 4 hours before taking the first train home.

asdff 4y ago

NYC subway is basically a situation where the horse stable owners got their industry codified into the law. For example, there is a pension earning position on each train that is merely responsible for closing the doors, because this was needed with the technology of the time a century ago, but the transit workers union has ensured this good paying job will not be eliminated now that we have came up with ideas to solve the operator closing door issue (like a platform mirror). Now labor costs are twice as high for no good reason to run a train, since NYC subway needs to run them with two people while other transit agencies can run them with just one, or entirely autonomously even. Chances are there are a lot more positions like this, completely vestigial at this point, adding to overhead, but to be preserved seemingly until the end of time so that no one is told the bad news that their job no longer exists.

guardiangod 4y ago
I know about the duo-operators in MTA. Before I came to NYC I didn't understand it either. After I moved here and saw how violent and hostile people are towards the train, I actually came around on the duo-operations. If MTA doesn't do that it's likely many many people will be crushed by the doors, and you'd get a lot of broken trains. I never saw as many riders actively breaking the train doors in eg. Japan/HK/DC/Seattle/SF subway.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  >If MTA doesn't do that it's likely many many people will be crushed by the doors Train doors look ominous, but are designed in a way to not seriously harm a human in a way.
  - guardiangod 4y ago
    Not the ones in NYC. I am telling you they hurt a lot more than ones say the Yamamoto Line's. I know people who got deep bruises from them.
    - decafninja 4y ago

throwaway2037 4y ago

24 hour subway leaves no time at all to do any maintenance. This is incorrect. The NYC subway has a huge amount of extra tracks (side tracks and local/express tracks). I would hazard a guess to say more than any other system in the world. (How many other systems in the world have so many local & express tracks? It is incredibly rare.) This allows them to run maintenance at night, while there are much fewer regular trains running. This is partly why you need to wait so long for a train between 2 AM and 6 AM. A long time ago when I lived in NYC, during these "dead hours", waiting at a station, I would frequently see maintenance trains passing through the station. To me, the real purpose of 24 hour train service is make the city a "24 hour city" -- for economic purposes. People working late shifts in office buildings (cleaners, maintenance) or factories (food, clothing, whatever) or restaurants/bars/nightlife can all use a very cheap, albeit slow, delayed, and low quality, metro 24 hours a day. What is strange to me: Why not replace nice service with bus service? It would be cheaper to run and they could spend more time maintaining the tracks below. Last question: How many 24x7x365 metro systems exist in the world? I struggle to think of five.

carlivar 4y ago
The whole system? Does the whole NYC system run? That's impressive. Chicago has 24/7 operation on the red and blue lines but the others are generally off from roughly 1-4am give or take a bit.
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  Certainly all lines that enter Manhattan. Even the dreaded "G" line between Brooklyn and Queens runs 24x7x365, although you will be lucky to get one train per hour. You walk faster most nights. My guess: The (single) Staten Island line might stop for a few hours.
liversage 4y ago
The Copenhagen metro runs 24×7×365. It's also a driverless system.
- 4y ago

pelagic_sky 4y ago

When I lived in Tokyo, and would miss the last train, I would walk as far as I could until I would give up and grab a cab. This would only happen because I was drinking out at the clubs and it would be entertaining at first, but once reality set in, it was time to grab a cab.

m463 4y ago
> once reality set in I wonder if that's a good way to work off the alcohol. When you start using up all the alcohol in your system, you start sobering up and then sobriety allows you to view reality. :)

zymhan 4y ago

> feel the burn of $100 to get home vs. say $2-4 Just so you know, this is not a choice most people can even consider. Mass transit isn't just to save you on an Uber, it's a public service.

zpeti 4y ago
[flagged]
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  Why would you say such a shitty thing?
  - zpeti 4y ago
    [flagged]

xbmcuser 4y ago

In a lot of cities where train/subway closes at night they have express bus service that take you from 1 part of the city to another and then you can take taxi from there. So with a properly planned public transport system it should not cost you $100 nor would you need to wait 6 hours.

comte7092 4y ago

>24 hour subway leaves no time at all to do any maintenance. I can guarantee you that they do maintenance 24/7. Having a break in service at night might help, but the idea that a system can complete all the required maintenance in a 3 hour window in the middle of the night is a bit silly. Many repairs take longer than that.