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This is the epitome of the sentiment: those interested in the pursuit of “hard truths” are only extrinsically motivated to find fault in others and gleefully “c

This is the epitome of the sentiment: those interested in the pursuit of “hard truths” are only extrinsically motivated to find fault in others and gleefully “correct” another’s “faulty” self perception. Never intrinsically motivated to better themselves… Tell me more about how everyone else in the “modern world” is the problem…

yarg 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  Why would you bother giving input when you don't care if or how it is received? Stream of consciousness oversharing isn't required for honesty. You don't have to say everything that comes into your head. Practice giving less of a fuck about everyone else and not evaluating them and telling them how great you are (which is what you achieve when you criticize someone for no reason).
  - yarg 3y ago
    > Why would you bother giving input when you don't care if or how it is received? Because the point of the statement is in the consequences that result, not the emotional response elicited? Here's an example, I once worked with an absolutely useless tester, the only tester on my team. Hadn't picked up by month four on the sort of basic shit he should've had on day one. And he never did. I'd been implementing some rather complex features for the technical lead of one of the other teams, and the changes were almost ready to be built. We had a meeting, with the team lead, my manager, the tester, and I told the team lead that he'd need to test the changes once they were in place. "[The tester] will do that." "No he won't, he's not good enough." Full test coverage mattered more to me than some dude's feelings.
    - maxbond 3y ago
      Well, I wasn't there, but I'm more inclined to believe that he wasn't given the support and mentorship he needed to learn than that he was simply "bad" and incapable of growing into the role. Maybe your organization wasn't in a position to provide that and it was a bad match, it happens. If you decide this dude isn't gunnuh make it and start cutting him off projects rather than getting him more support, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. And it's pretty messed up to trash him that way. If I'm being perfectly frank, this doesn't so much sound like a case where brutal honesty saved a project than a case where you lacked the tact and emotional intelligence to navigate a delicate situation (or perhaps were frazzled by a complex project with deadlines where you felt your colleague wasn't carrying their weight), and so you just took a sledge hammer to it. That's such a brutal way to treat a colleague, it must have been devastating for their moral. Like, what was your relationship to this person like after that? Did they stay on? Were your team lead and manager really okay with how you handled that?
      - yarg 3y ago
        The guy simply did not have the ability to think in useful abstract terms. He would ask about something that I expected him to be able to figure out, I would answer. Then he ask the same question with different parameters. Day after day, week after week, month after month. So yeah, the truth fell out of my mouth. It's always harshest when it's actually true.
    - eyelidlessness 3y ago
      If you had cared about the consequences, it might have served everyone better (yourself included) if you’d found a constructive way to discuss concerns you’d had for months, so everyone involved would have a better chance of success. It’s possible you’d done that, but it sounds very much like you just left a situation in a far from ideal state until you chose to categorically write off a whole person who may not have even known there was an issue to address in the first place. If full test coverage mattered to you so much, I'd expect at least a part of this anecdote to include some discussion of how it would be handled in light of prior concerns about test coverage up to that point. If I’d been in a leadership role in this scenario I’d probably postpone whatever next thing was on my daily agenda to sit down with you and convey that waiting months to raise known problems is exactly what I expect you not to do. I would indicate that it’s actively harmful to the success of whatever everyone is working on and to everyone working on it, and since you seem to appreciate bluntness I’d add that I expect it not to happen again.
- deleted 3y ago
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NikolaNovak 3y ago
Everything in this thread converges on generalizations and platitudes. I've lived long enough to have learned to present feedback to others diplomatically and inasmuch as possible kindly. But when it comes to me, dear Lorde, just get to a constructive point quickly and directly. Takes me a while to coach my mentors :) but life is easier for all once they believe me. The point being, there's all sorts, including those who genuinely want "hard truths" without looking to only correct others.

yarg 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lazyasciiart 3y ago
Why would you bother giving input when you don't care if or how it is received? Stream of consciousness oversharing isn't required for honesty. You don't have to say everything that comes into your head. Practice giving less of a fuck about everyone else and not evaluating them and telling them how great you are (which is what you achieve when you criticize someone for no reason).
- yarg 3y ago
  > Why would you bother giving input when you don't care if or how it is received? Because the point of the statement is in the consequences that result, not the emotional response elicited? Here's an example, I once worked with an absolutely useless tester, the only tester on my team. Hadn't picked up by month four on the sort of basic shit he should've had on day one. And he never did. I'd been implementing some rather complex features for the technical lead of one of the other teams, and the changes were almost ready to be built. We had a meeting, with the team lead, my manager, the tester, and I told the team lead that he'd need to test the changes once they were in place. "[The tester] will do that." "No he won't, he's not good enough." Full test coverage mattered more to me than some dude's feelings.
  - maxbond 3y ago
    Well, I wasn't there, but I'm more inclined to believe that he wasn't given the support and mentorship he needed to learn than that he was simply "bad" and incapable of growing into the role. Maybe your organization wasn't in a position to provide that and it was a bad match, it happens. If you decide this dude isn't gunnuh make it and start cutting him off projects rather than getting him more support, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. And it's pretty messed up to trash him that way. If I'm being perfectly frank, this doesn't so much sound like a case where brutal honesty saved a project than a case where you lacked the tact and emotional intelligence to navigate a delicate situation (or perhaps were frazzled by a complex project with deadlines where you felt your colleague wasn't carrying their weight), and so you just took a sledge hammer to it. That's such a brutal way to treat a colleague, it must have been devastating for their moral. Like, what was your relationship to this person like after that? Did they stay on? Were your team lead and manager really okay with how you handled that?
    - yarg 3y ago
      The guy simply did not have the ability to think in useful abstract terms. He would ask about something that I expected him to be able to figure out, I would answer. Then he ask the same question with different parameters. Day after day, week after week, month after month. So yeah, the truth fell out of my mouth. It's always harshest when it's actually true.
  - eyelidlessness 3y ago
    If you had cared about the consequences, it might have served everyone better (yourself included) if you’d found a constructive way to discuss concerns you’d had for months, so everyone involved would have a better chance of success. It’s possible you’d done that, but it sounds very much like you just left a situation in a far from ideal state until you chose to categorically write off a whole person who may not have even known there was an issue to address in the first place. If full test coverage mattered to you so much, I'd expect at least a part of this anecdote to include some discussion of how it would be handled in light of prior concerns about test coverage up to that point. If I’d been in a leadership role in this scenario I’d probably postpone whatever next thing was on my daily agenda to sit down with you and convey that waiting months to raise known problems is exactly what I expect you not to do. I would indicate that it’s actively harmful to the success of whatever everyone is working on and to everyone working on it, and since you seem to appreciate bluntness I’d add that I expect it not to happen again.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

NikolaNovak 3y ago

Everything in this thread converges on generalizations and platitudes. I've lived long enough to have learned to present feedback to others diplomatically and inasmuch as possible kindly. But when it comes to me, dear Lorde, just get to a constructive point quickly and directly. Takes me a while to coach my mentors :) but life is easier for all once they believe me. The point being, there's all sorts, including those who genuinely want "hard truths" without looking to only correct others.