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> Indentation and lack of fixed types in Python. Whenever I see someone complain about Python's indentation, my brain internally translates it to "I poorly for

> Indentation and lack of fixed types in Python. Whenever I see someone complain about Python's indentation, my brain internally translates it to "I poorly format my code." If you code is properly formatted, then Python's indentation is never a problem. I praise Python's indentation-as-syntax because it prevents issues like a dangling else or a forgotten brace while also making proper formatting a requirement for your program to run.

smackeyacky 4y ago
Let's be clear about this: python indentation-as-syntax makes one particular style of formatting a requirement. Not everybody likes it. You might say I poorly format my code in other languages, but most of the time for readability you are somewhat stuck with the formatting of that code base which turns out to be a non-problem thanks to modern editors (sarcasm) like vi that can do brace matching and are older than python. Python's rigidity on formatting should solve that problem, but it really doesn't and over time it relaxed the rules somewhat which made it better.
_a_a_a_ 4y ago
> then Python's indentation is never a problem I'm sure you have some solid 3rd party research to cite to back up that absolutist claim. Or have some explanation that a it with my workmate's fault and not a git merge (which mixed up indenting between the two files) that introduced a bug that took hours to track down. Or why people like me loved the idea of meaningful indentation in python, then grew to not love it any more after experience. Or the bitch that it can be when you have to generate code and have to do more than just slap braces around it to delimit blocks. All in all, another one of those pure-opinion HN posts that are becoming too common.
klibertp 4y ago
You've missed the GP point by so wide a margin you could have as well shot in the opposite direction. You're basically doing exactly what they asked you not to. People are different, work in different ways, are productive with different techniques, have their own habits formed over decades that they don't feel the need to change. None of that means they're worse than you, who, of course, always properly formats your code. It's perfectly possible, and not that rare, to be careful with indentation and not liking significant whitespace (esp. if the rules are not overly consistent, like in Python). It's also possible to feel like the need to manually adjust indents after moving the code around is a distracting chore that braces largely eliminate. It's possible to work exclusively within an IDE that will make "dangling else" problem impossible to happen, therefore it's possible not to see that as a problem. And so on. Keep an open mind. Try to get accustomed to various style of working with code. Stop your brain from being discriminatory, and don't assume too much about what other people consider "good" or "poor". If in doubt, ask politely. BTW: I'm using Python since 2.5.2 professionally. Just a quick disclaimer.
cma 4y ago
The biggest issue is python's indentation stuff doesn't work in a function parameter list, so you get stuck with single line lambdas only or defining a temp named function before using then in an unnatural way.

smackeyacky 4y ago

Let's be clear about this: python indentation-as-syntax makes one particular style of formatting a requirement. Not everybody likes it. You might say I poorly format my code in other languages, but most of the time for readability you are somewhat stuck with the formatting of that code base which turns out to be a non-problem thanks to modern editors (sarcasm) like vi that can do brace matching and are older than python. Python's rigidity on formatting should solve that problem, but it really doesn't and over time it relaxed the rules somewhat which made it better.

_a_a_a_ 4y ago

> then Python's indentation is never a problem I'm sure you have some solid 3rd party research to cite to back up that absolutist claim. Or have some explanation that a it with my workmate's fault and not a git merge (which mixed up indenting between the two files) that introduced a bug that took hours to track down. Or why people like me loved the idea of meaningful indentation in python, then grew to not love it any more after experience. Or the bitch that it can be when you have to generate code and have to do more than just slap braces around it to delimit blocks. All in all, another one of those pure-opinion HN posts that are becoming too common.

klibertp 4y ago

You've missed the GP point by so wide a margin you could have as well shot in the opposite direction. You're basically doing exactly what they asked you not to. People are different, work in different ways, are productive with different techniques, have their own habits formed over decades that they don't feel the need to change. None of that means they're worse than you, who, of course, always properly formats your code. It's perfectly possible, and not that rare, to be careful with indentation and not liking significant whitespace (esp. if the rules are not overly consistent, like in Python). It's also possible to feel like the need to manually adjust indents after moving the code around is a distracting chore that braces largely eliminate. It's possible to work exclusively within an IDE that will make "dangling else" problem impossible to happen, therefore it's possible not to see that as a problem. And so on. Keep an open mind. Try to get accustomed to various style of working with code. Stop your brain from being discriminatory, and don't assume too much about what other people consider "good" or "poor". If in doubt, ask politely. BTW: I'm using Python since 2.5.2 professionally. Just a quick disclaimer.

cma 4y ago

The biggest issue is python's indentation stuff doesn't work in a function parameter list, so you get stuck with single line lambdas only or defining a temp named function before using then in an unnatural way.