3 ms·

This is the essence - that a system needs to fit inside one persons head. All of it. There maybe a few people who understand all of a Boeing airplanes systems

This is the essence - that a system needs to fit inside one persons head. All of it. There maybe a few people who understand all of a Boeing airplanes systems - there certainly were when they first flew 747s. Maybe a couple now. but once it stops fitting inside one persons head then the thing is literally only possible to design by committee - it cannot fit together and perhaps should stop being called a single system

bob1029 4y ago
> it cannot fit together and perhaps should stop being called a single system The magic is the enterprise message bus. It is meme crap until you actually need one. When it works, it really works. This is the only thing I've ever seen realistically tie together certain industrial environments.
cortesoft 4y ago
There is no one who understands FULLY how a single computer works (at least not to the specific levels of detail on how to make every part from scratch... how to mine the heavy metals, how to chemically process them, etc) That bas been impossible for hundreds of years. The important part is where you draw up the system boundaries
- concordDance 4y ago
  > That bas been impossible for hundreds of years. You mean tens of years?
  - cortesoft 4y ago
    For computers specifically, sure, but I was talking about almost any complex machine in the last few hundred years.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      I'm fairly certain the chief engineer on the System 360 understood everything down to the transistors. Anything past that though... maybe QNX down to the bytecode? It's at least elegant enough to suggest so.
      - cortesoft 4y ago
        You think they knew how to mine the ore and process it into usable material to manufacture those transistors? You might argue that that isn't required to fully understand the system, but that argument is no different than saying you don't need to understand the hardware at a detailed level to fully understand your system.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        I lived across the park from the best mining school in Canada so yes I believe that's totally possible. A few months of intensive study, or a year or 2 of more casual study is all that's needed with the right guidance.

bob1029 4y ago

> it cannot fit together and perhaps should stop being called a single system The magic is the enterprise message bus. It is meme crap until you actually need one. When it works, it really works. This is the only thing I've ever seen realistically tie together certain industrial environments.

cortesoft 4y ago

There is no one who understands FULLY how a single computer works (at least not to the specific levels of detail on how to make every part from scratch... how to mine the heavy metals, how to chemically process them, etc) That bas been impossible for hundreds of years. The important part is where you draw up the system boundaries

concordDance 4y ago
> That bas been impossible for hundreds of years. You mean tens of years?
- cortesoft 4y ago
  For computers specifically, sure, but I was talking about almost any complex machine in the last few hundred years.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    I'm fairly certain the chief engineer on the System 360 understood everything down to the transistors. Anything past that though... maybe QNX down to the bytecode? It's at least elegant enough to suggest so.
    - cortesoft 4y ago
      You think they knew how to mine the ore and process it into usable material to manufacture those transistors? You might argue that that isn't required to fully understand the system, but that argument is no different than saying you don't need to understand the hardware at a detailed level to fully understand your system.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        I lived across the park from the best mining school in Canada so yes I believe that's totally possible. A few months of intensive study, or a year or 2 of more casual study is all that's needed with the right guidance.