4 ms·

what about the old plan as just-the-sales-tax(local+state+federal), so nobody needs to file anything, and no need of IRS at all. * flat-tax-rate as the def

what about the old plan as just-the-sales-tax(local+state+federal), so nobody needs to file anything, and no need of IRS at all. * flat-tax-rate as the default,itemized if you prefer: * charge less for regular food, educational and medical expenses * charge a little more for travel and non-essential leisure expenses * charge even more for luxury expenses * charge nothing before your spend reach a certain point, e.g. $5000 Someone has to figure out how to design the tax rate, point is that, we no longer need the IRS and annual or quarterly tax reports. There are a few states did well with no income tax(just sales tax and property tax), the nation could do the same, don't forget to short Intuit if this happens.

petersellers 4y ago
There have been a number of studies done that demonstrate that a consumption tax (which is effectively what this is) is considered to be regressive because they disproportionately affect poor people. I'm all for simplifying the tax code (e.g. eliminating many deductions) as long as we also eliminate loopholes that rich people often use to avoid paying taxes on their income.
ebiester 4y ago
It disproportionately taxes poor people over rich people. Also, how do you report how much you've spent to the IRS? That seems even harder. Some people have suggested a "prebate" of a payment that people get that helps with their first part of the sales tax, but that breaks down after a while. There are also the same problems of "under the table" behavior.
- kcplate 4y ago
  >It disproportionately taxes poor people over rich people. I always hear this said about national sales taxes, but it just doesn’t really jive with me as valid. It really seems to make the assumption that consumption doesn’t actually increase based upon how wealthy you are. When it obviously does. I don’t know many poor folks buying super cars, yachts, airplanes, and multimillion dollar homes. Yet I know a few wealthy folks with multiple of each.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    If I'm wealthy, it's most likely that I own a business. If I have a business, then it will have bought that airplane, yacht or car all as tax-deductible purchases. Business then lets me use those at its discretion. My personal car can be an '87 Chevette. Best example I'm personally familiar with is the carpenter whose Corvette was a company car.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      All of those things are still purchased though, whether it’s a company or an individual. Personally I thought the purpose of taxes was to provide the government its funding, not punish.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        I was addressing the point about wealthy people paying more in sales taxes than the poor. That is correct, but if you have access to the wider range of tax shelters that the wealthy do, more of your expenses can be tax deductible. I agree that taxes shouldn't be punitive, but that's another discussion.
  - shagmin 4y ago
    The thing is poor people have to spend all their income, wealthy people don't. So poor people have all their income taxed, while wealthy people surely aren't spending their last dollar on yachts for the most part. Wealthy people have lots of leftover income to invest and make yet even more money instead. At least with an income tax you can ensure no one pays taxes on their first $x and such.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      Still doesn’t jive. Taxes are there to fund government, not punish success. Whether or not you have a large income or a small one, your consumption is what it is and to a degree can be controlled.
yamtaddle 4y ago
> so nobody needs to file anything Most of us would need to do very little filing-related work every year if anti-tax politicians who think their crusade is worth wasting hundreds of person-lifetimes of hours every single year, and tax prep companies' lobbyists (probably with, ah, some overlap between these two causes) would stop standing in the way, no major overhaul of the tax code required.
patmorgan23 4y ago
People still file sales taxes, just not individual. It's the duty of the business doing the selling to collect the sales tax, file, and transmit those funds to the state. As long as we have taxes we will need a tax collector (i.e. the IRS) to handle all the filings and to make sure people are paying their taxes. The IRS absolutely could be doing more. They could let you log-in to a portal with your tax return prefilled out based on all the filings done by your employer. But the tax preparation industry has lobbied against this, and the IRS is underfunded (they still haven't processed all of last year's paper returns). Also a lot of states that don't have income tax, receive lots of federal funding.... Which comes from income taxes.

petersellers 4y ago

There have been a number of studies done that demonstrate that a consumption tax (which is effectively what this is) is considered to be regressive because they disproportionately affect poor people. I'm all for simplifying the tax code (e.g. eliminating many deductions) as long as we also eliminate loopholes that rich people often use to avoid paying taxes on their income.

ebiester 4y ago

It disproportionately taxes poor people over rich people. Also, how do you report how much you've spent to the IRS? That seems even harder. Some people have suggested a "prebate" of a payment that people get that helps with their first part of the sales tax, but that breaks down after a while. There are also the same problems of "under the table" behavior.

kcplate 4y ago
>It disproportionately taxes poor people over rich people. I always hear this said about national sales taxes, but it just doesn’t really jive with me as valid. It really seems to make the assumption that consumption doesn’t actually increase based upon how wealthy you are. When it obviously does. I don’t know many poor folks buying super cars, yachts, airplanes, and multimillion dollar homes. Yet I know a few wealthy folks with multiple of each.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  If I'm wealthy, it's most likely that I own a business. If I have a business, then it will have bought that airplane, yacht or car all as tax-deductible purchases. Business then lets me use those at its discretion. My personal car can be an '87 Chevette. Best example I'm personally familiar with is the carpenter whose Corvette was a company car.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    All of those things are still purchased though, whether it’s a company or an individual. Personally I thought the purpose of taxes was to provide the government its funding, not punish.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      I was addressing the point about wealthy people paying more in sales taxes than the poor. That is correct, but if you have access to the wider range of tax shelters that the wealthy do, more of your expenses can be tax deductible. I agree that taxes shouldn't be punitive, but that's another discussion.
- shagmin 4y ago
  The thing is poor people have to spend all their income, wealthy people don't. So poor people have all their income taxed, while wealthy people surely aren't spending their last dollar on yachts for the most part. Wealthy people have lots of leftover income to invest and make yet even more money instead. At least with an income tax you can ensure no one pays taxes on their first $x and such.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    Still doesn’t jive. Taxes are there to fund government, not punish success. Whether or not you have a large income or a small one, your consumption is what it is and to a degree can be controlled.

yamtaddle 4y ago

> so nobody needs to file anything Most of us would need to do very little filing-related work every year if anti-tax politicians who think their crusade is worth wasting hundreds of person-lifetimes of hours every single year, and tax prep companies' lobbyists (probably with, ah, some overlap between these two causes) would stop standing in the way, no major overhaul of the tax code required.

patmorgan23 4y ago

People still file sales taxes, just not individual. It's the duty of the business doing the selling to collect the sales tax, file, and transmit those funds to the state. As long as we have taxes we will need a tax collector (i.e. the IRS) to handle all the filings and to make sure people are paying their taxes. The IRS absolutely could be doing more. They could let you log-in to a portal with your tax return prefilled out based on all the filings done by your employer. But the tax preparation industry has lobbied against this, and the IRS is underfunded (they still haven't processed all of last year's paper returns). Also a lot of states that don't have income tax, receive lots of federal funding.... Which comes from income taxes.