3 ms·

> Let's not pretend this was some kind of collective decision or green victory. It wasn't just that, but there definitely was a collective shift toward energy

> Let's not pretend this was some kind of collective decision or green victory. It wasn't just that, but there definitely was a collective shift toward energy saving, also among those who could've afforded the high energy prices. (at least here in NL) I agree we shouldn't celebrate the decision of the poor to be energy-frugal, they had no choice in most cases. But those wo had a choice, still chose to conserve energy, often structurally. We should celebrate that for the environmental win it is.

boomskats 4y ago
> But those wo had a choice, still chose to conserve energy, often structurally. We should celebrate that for the environmental win it is. This is interesting. Can you point to the data on this? Do you guys run some kind of tracker study?
- kvdveer 4y ago
  I only have anekdata, unfortunately. My observations: * I tried to find a contractor for some work on my house. Very few were available, none were available short-term. Most told me this is due to extreme demand for isolation measures. * Lead times on heat pumps rose to half a year, presumably also due to demand. * People dressed warmer. * The most common thermostat temperature for people around me temperature dropped from 20c to 19c. * "How to isolate" was a very common topic in most Dutch media, far more than in previous winters.
dunslandsboo 4y ago
It was a fun game for the well off green voters indeed. LARPing that they are saving the planet by reacting to a higher energy bill. Tracking it all with their fun home assistant gadgets and showing off at work how much they are saving. It had no real impact on them, and most would go fly around the world to celebrate the holiday as soon as they had the chance. For the working class however, the people really affected by the green policies, it was a matter of choosing between heat and groceries. For the environment it doesn't matter one bit as China is using more energy than the whole western world combined. It's telling that only the people that can still easily pay the bills see this as something to be celebrated.
- WeylandYutani 4y ago
  This wasn't about the environment Europe went into a proxy war with Russia- it's main energy supplier. And we won the battle.

boomskats 4y ago

> But those wo had a choice, still chose to conserve energy, often structurally. We should celebrate that for the environmental win it is. This is interesting. Can you point to the data on this? Do you guys run some kind of tracker study?

kvdveer 4y ago
I only have anekdata, unfortunately. My observations: * I tried to find a contractor for some work on my house. Very few were available, none were available short-term. Most told me this is due to extreme demand for isolation measures. * Lead times on heat pumps rose to half a year, presumably also due to demand. * People dressed warmer. * The most common thermostat temperature for people around me temperature dropped from 20c to 19c. * "How to isolate" was a very common topic in most Dutch media, far more than in previous winters.

dunslandsboo 4y ago

It was a fun game for the well off green voters indeed. LARPing that they are saving the planet by reacting to a higher energy bill. Tracking it all with their fun home assistant gadgets and showing off at work how much they are saving. It had no real impact on them, and most would go fly around the world to celebrate the holiday as soon as they had the chance. For the working class however, the people really affected by the green policies, it was a matter of choosing between heat and groceries. For the environment it doesn't matter one bit as China is using more energy than the whole western world combined. It's telling that only the people that can still easily pay the bills see this as something to be celebrated.

WeylandYutani 4y ago
This wasn't about the environment Europe went into a proxy war with Russia- it's main energy supplier. And we won the battle.