7 ms·

Can we just stop the horizontal scrolling on websites already? Users hate it (countless usability studies), it's ergonomically difficult to perform it consisten

Can we just stop the horizontal scrolling on websites already? Users hate it (countless usability studies), it's ergonomically difficult to perform it consistently with a mouse, and it always seems "too clever" like someone was trying to think outside the box.

tomelders 15y ago
it's easy with a trackpad though. And on a touchscreen.
- Symmetry 15y ago
  And a with a trackpoint.
  - kristofferR 15y ago
    How? Since a trackpoint can't possibly support two-finger scroll, which is what makes scrolling both directions so easy on a trackpad, it seems like you either would need to drag the scrollbar block or hold down a key in order to scroll, two cumbersome solutions.
    - Symmetry 15y ago
      You just hold down the middle key and push the trackpoint. Since its right by your thumb anyways, it really isn't cumbersome at all. And I find it much easier and more precise for scrolling long distances than either trackpad or screen scrolling since I only have to hold something down, and releasing it stops the scrolling instantly.
daleharvey 15y ago
Thats a pretty ridiculous solution, the web is not limited to reading plain text documents anymore, there are a lot of applications where horizontal scrolling is perfectly suitable requirement. Imagine drawing apps that could only handle a fixed width, or spreadsheets where you could only go as far as the F column
- hollerith 15y ago
  >the web is not limited to reading plain text documents anymore That is true. It is also true that it is becoming more frustrating to use the web for its original purpose of reading plain text documents, and the need to scroll some pages horizontally is a symptom of that.
  - silentOpen 15y ago
    I thought the purpose of the web was scientific hypertext documents?
    - hollerith 15y ago
      "Scientific hypertext documents" then. Point is that it is becoming more difficult to use for its original purpose.
nirvdrum 15y ago
The place this trips me up routinely is reading code on GitHub. I think they rightfully boxed the source file view to be fixed width so it doesn't blow out the rest of the layout. And it'd be inappropriate for them to wrap the code in that view. So, we have a scroll bar, which works fine, except on a trackpad on Lion.
- justincormack 15y ago
  Why is it inappropriate to wrap? It might need some language specific code for old Fortran versions but should be doable...
  - nirvdrum 15y ago
    Have you ever tried to read wrapped code? It's pretty terrible. Obviously that's opinion, but I've never come across anyone that's disagreed. Plus, your line heights now differ, which makes navigating vertically even harder.
    - Pheter 15y ago
      I find 'smart wrapping' very easy to read. (Code is wrapped and auto-indented to the current indentation level.) I wish this feature was far more prevalent and it means that I don't have to worry about manually breaking the occasional long line, the entire line still fits within a window of any size, and the code remains perfectly readable.
    - justincormack 15y ago
      I get truncated code all over the place, and that is worse! Clearly you do have to get the indents sane. Of course short lines are better too.
    - rwallace 15y ago
      I don't disagree that the usual implementation of wrapped code is pretty terrible (because it goes back to the start of the line, thus spectacularly breaking the indentation-based formatting - UltraEdit is the only implementation I've seen that gets it right), but it's still the right thing to do because the alternatives are even more terrible.
euroclydon 15y ago
Speaking of horizontal scrolling, I wonder what it would take to make HN verbatim text not get cut off horizontally, when viewed on mobile Safari. Anyone know if HN uses a PRE? Does mobile Safari cut off all wide text in PREs?
- uxp 15y ago
  Its <pre><code>foo</code></pre>. All browsers will not automatically wrap text inside pre tags, since the text inside pre is supposed to have both width and line-breaks preserved. Scroll with two fingers inside the box to view whatever has been hidden by "overflow: scroll;". If you find a site that lets pre code snippets overflow into the right sidebar and off the screen, let them know their site is unusable and to add an overflow CSS rule to make it respect smaller screen widths.
  - shadowfiend 15y ago
    You can also use white-space: pre-wrap to allow wrapping in preformatted text.
- aiscott 15y ago
  Just as an FYI, you can drag those HN verbatim/code text elements horizontally on iOS. It wasn't obvious to me because the box doesn't have an outline.
benaston 15y ago
"countless usability studies" References?
- Drbble 15y ago
  If references were given, they could be counted, not countless.
vacri 15y ago
I agree, dammit - the entire web should be formatted so no horizontal scrolling is ever required on my 800x480 eeepc!
- seabee 15y ago
  I know you're being facetious, but realistically the vast majority of websites can be designed to display on lower-resolution displays. It's not a fun experience to read text by scrolling in a Z pattern.
- rwallace 15y ago
  Or more to the point, browsers should always wrap text that would otherwise be cut off, regardless of what erroneous instructions they get from the website. As one writer put it, "anyone who puts up with horizontal scrolling probably has other vices as well."
xbryanx 15y ago
Scrolling horizontally is particularly important when viewing horizontal timelines like Gantt charts and large tables.

tomelders 15y ago

it's easy with a trackpad though. And on a touchscreen.

Symmetry 15y ago
And a with a trackpoint.
- kristofferR 15y ago
  How? Since a trackpoint can't possibly support two-finger scroll, which is what makes scrolling both directions so easy on a trackpad, it seems like you either would need to drag the scrollbar block or hold down a key in order to scroll, two cumbersome solutions.
  - Symmetry 15y ago
    You just hold down the middle key and push the trackpoint. Since its right by your thumb anyways, it really isn't cumbersome at all. And I find it much easier and more precise for scrolling long distances than either trackpad or screen scrolling since I only have to hold something down, and releasing it stops the scrolling instantly.

daleharvey 15y ago

Thats a pretty ridiculous solution, the web is not limited to reading plain text documents anymore, there are a lot of applications where horizontal scrolling is perfectly suitable requirement. Imagine drawing apps that could only handle a fixed width, or spreadsheets where you could only go as far as the F column

hollerith 15y ago
>the web is not limited to reading plain text documents anymore That is true. It is also true that it is becoming more frustrating to use the web for its original purpose of reading plain text documents, and the need to scroll some pages horizontally is a symptom of that.
- silentOpen 15y ago
  I thought the purpose of the web was scientific hypertext documents?
  - hollerith 15y ago
    "Scientific hypertext documents" then. Point is that it is becoming more difficult to use for its original purpose.

nirvdrum 15y ago

The place this trips me up routinely is reading code on GitHub. I think they rightfully boxed the source file view to be fixed width so it doesn't blow out the rest of the layout. And it'd be inappropriate for them to wrap the code in that view. So, we have a scroll bar, which works fine, except on a trackpad on Lion.

justincormack 15y ago
Why is it inappropriate to wrap? It might need some language specific code for old Fortran versions but should be doable...
- nirvdrum 15y ago
  Have you ever tried to read wrapped code? It's pretty terrible. Obviously that's opinion, but I've never come across anyone that's disagreed. Plus, your line heights now differ, which makes navigating vertically even harder.
  - Pheter 15y ago
    I find 'smart wrapping' very easy to read. (Code is wrapped and auto-indented to the current indentation level.) I wish this feature was far more prevalent and it means that I don't have to worry about manually breaking the occasional long line, the entire line still fits within a window of any size, and the code remains perfectly readable.
  - justincormack 15y ago
    I get truncated code all over the place, and that is worse! Clearly you do have to get the indents sane. Of course short lines are better too.
  - rwallace 15y ago
    I don't disagree that the usual implementation of wrapped code is pretty terrible (because it goes back to the start of the line, thus spectacularly breaking the indentation-based formatting - UltraEdit is the only implementation I've seen that gets it right), but it's still the right thing to do because the alternatives are even more terrible.

euroclydon 15y ago

Speaking of horizontal scrolling, I wonder what it would take to make HN verbatim text not get cut off horizontally, when viewed on mobile Safari. Anyone know if HN uses a PRE? Does mobile Safari cut off all wide text in PREs?

uxp 15y ago
Its <pre><code>foo</code></pre>. All browsers will not automatically wrap text inside pre tags, since the text inside pre is supposed to have both width and line-breaks preserved. Scroll with two fingers inside the box to view whatever has been hidden by "overflow: scroll;". If you find a site that lets pre code snippets overflow into the right sidebar and off the screen, let them know their site is unusable and to add an overflow CSS rule to make it respect smaller screen widths.
- shadowfiend 15y ago
  You can also use white-space: pre-wrap to allow wrapping in preformatted text.
aiscott 15y ago
Just as an FYI, you can drag those HN verbatim/code text elements horizontally on iOS. It wasn't obvious to me because the box doesn't have an outline.

benaston 15y ago

"countless usability studies" References?

Drbble 15y ago
If references were given, they could be counted, not countless.

vacri 15y ago

I agree, dammit - the entire web should be formatted so no horizontal scrolling is ever required on my 800x480 eeepc!

seabee 15y ago
I know you're being facetious, but realistically the vast majority of websites can be designed to display on lower-resolution displays. It's not a fun experience to read text by scrolling in a Z pattern.
rwallace 15y ago
Or more to the point, browsers should always wrap text that would otherwise be cut off, regardless of what erroneous instructions they get from the website. As one writer put it, "anyone who puts up with horizontal scrolling probably has other vices as well."

xbryanx 15y ago

Scrolling horizontally is particularly important when viewing horizontal timelines like Gantt charts and large tables.