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> Like the article overly focuses on things like expired tags. I couldn't care less if a driver has an expired tag. I care significantly move if they can stay i

> Like the article overly focuses on things like expired tags. I couldn't care less if a driver has an expired tag. I care significantly move if they can stay in their lane and that they don't run a red light / stop sign. The argument is basically a restatement of Cesare Beccaria's [1]. His theory was that the certainty and swiftness of punishment is a greater deterrent than the severity of punishment. The idea is essentially that if people are immediately caught and given a small fine for minor infractions (like expired tags), then they will believe they'll be caught equally quickly for something more major (like running a red light) with greater punishment. They would be less likely to commit a serious infraction because of their experience with smaller infractions. There's probably some truth to it. I know a fair few drivers who drive terribly, but they've never gotten a ticket so they keep doing it. They might stop accelerating into yellow lights if they got a small ticket for something minor like failing to signal a lane change. Just as a reminder that there are actually people watching. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesare_Beccaria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesare_Beccaria

gausswho 4y ago
To certainty and swiftness, and to reduce burden on the police, I'd like to see an experiment: Cars that self-report for minor traffic infractions. Many new cars already phone home various information useful for profit. You'd get a debrief every time you stopped your car and an email with the bill. Could be eased in with a forgiveness threshold for the first N offenses. I would expect this to be effective, and very... unamerican.
- everforward 4y ago
  It would definitely be interesting. My guess is that it wouldn't work if people were aware of which infractions could be automatically enforced. That's just a wild guess, though, I have nothing to back that up. One data point we do have is the "Broken windows theory" which NYC pursued. It's not exactly the same idea, but the implementation bears some similarities. It might be interesting to look at. I'm not going to speculate on it, because it's a contentious topic (disproportionately impacted poor people and minorities) and I'm frankly not well-versed enough to have a strong opinion either way.
- subarctic 4y ago
  Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYaXy5mmA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYaXy5mmA8
  - gausswho 4y ago
    That was an enjoyable short, thank you. I see why you were reminded of it. I would normally be wary of the nanny slippy slide we are on, but could make exception for irresponsible driving enforced by the vehicles themselves instead of fallible humans.
lesuorac 4y ago
> The idea is essentially that if people are immediately caught and given a small fine for minor infractions (like expired tags), then they will believe they'll be caught equally quickly for something more major (like running a red light) with greater punishment. I think the theory breaks down completely though when they're not given a punishment for something major. Drivers know they can go 10~15 mph over the speed limit on a highway without getting pulled over so they do so. Drivers know they can run the first second of a red light so they will do so. You can pull people over for as many expired tags as you want but drivers know that running a red light won't get them pulled over so the expired tags won't scare them into thinking running a red light will.

gausswho 4y ago

To certainty and swiftness, and to reduce burden on the police, I'd like to see an experiment: Cars that self-report for minor traffic infractions. Many new cars already phone home various information useful for profit. You'd get a debrief every time you stopped your car and an email with the bill. Could be eased in with a forgiveness threshold for the first N offenses. I would expect this to be effective, and very... unamerican.

everforward 4y ago
It would definitely be interesting. My guess is that it wouldn't work if people were aware of which infractions could be automatically enforced. That's just a wild guess, though, I have nothing to back that up. One data point we do have is the "Broken windows theory" which NYC pursued. It's not exactly the same idea, but the implementation bears some similarities. It might be interesting to look at. I'm not going to speculate on it, because it's a contentious topic (disproportionately impacted poor people and minorities) and I'm frankly not well-versed enough to have a strong opinion either way.
subarctic 4y ago
Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYaXy5mmA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYaXy5mmA8
- gausswho 4y ago
  That was an enjoyable short, thank you. I see why you were reminded of it. I would normally be wary of the nanny slippy slide we are on, but could make exception for irresponsible driving enforced by the vehicles themselves instead of fallible humans.

lesuorac 4y ago

> The idea is essentially that if people are immediately caught and given a small fine for minor infractions (like expired tags), then they will believe they'll be caught equally quickly for something more major (like running a red light) with greater punishment. I think the theory breaks down completely though when they're not given a punishment for something major. Drivers know they can go 10~15 mph over the speed limit on a highway without getting pulled over so they do so. Drivers know they can run the first second of a red light so they will do so. You can pull people over for as many expired tags as you want but drivers know that running a red light won't get them pulled over so the expired tags won't scare them into thinking running a red light will.