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This is a horrifying view of the world even on its face, but also: even if we anticipate that people might do the wrong thing, it is still wrong and it is still

This is a horrifying view of the world even on its face, but also: even if we anticipate that people might do the wrong thing, it is still wrong and it is still appropriate to condemn that wrong and call for justice.

ColanR 4y ago
> This is a horrifying view of the world even on its face The alternative is easily classified as naiveté.
- GavinMcG 4y ago
  Yes, fine, but lacking all naiveté is a horrifying view of the world. We must have mechanisms for achieving justice after wrongdoing, and have faith that we can trust each other to do the right thing. Cf. Shaw: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
  - ColanR 4y ago
    But even the unreasonable must first see the world as it is, so that he can adapt it to himself. I'm not advocating that we accept the status quo, but I do take issue with not seeing the status quo for what it is.
jbaber 4y ago
Is the OP saying Tesla shouldn't be condemned? When a friend's car gets stolen, I reserve the right to condemn the thief and tut-tut at her for leaving the doors unlocked.
- GavinMcG 4y ago
  You can of course blame the victim while also blaming the perpetrator. As you point out, they're not mutually exclusive. But if your communication to your friend focused exclusively on her actions—like the comment does—then yes, I think that would be worthy of criticism.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > When a friend's car gets stolen, I reserve the right to condemn the thief and tut-tut at her for leaving the doors unlocked. That's a jerk move. And a terrible analogy. Using the car as intended and having the manufacturer use the cameras for something other than their intended use is not the same thing at all as failing to use the locks for their intended purpose. Might as well tut-tut at you for using the Internet the next time one of your devices gets compromised.

ColanR 4y ago

> This is a horrifying view of the world even on its face The alternative is easily classified as naiveté.

GavinMcG 4y ago
Yes, fine, but lacking all naiveté is a horrifying view of the world. We must have mechanisms for achieving justice after wrongdoing, and have faith that we can trust each other to do the right thing. Cf. Shaw: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
- ColanR 4y ago
  But even the unreasonable must first see the world as it is, so that he can adapt it to himself. I'm not advocating that we accept the status quo, but I do take issue with not seeing the status quo for what it is.

jbaber 4y ago

Is the OP saying Tesla shouldn't be condemned? When a friend's car gets stolen, I reserve the right to condemn the thief and tut-tut at her for leaving the doors unlocked.

GavinMcG 4y ago
You can of course blame the victim while also blaming the perpetrator. As you point out, they're not mutually exclusive. But if your communication to your friend focused exclusively on her actions—like the comment does—then yes, I think that would be worthy of criticism.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> When a friend's car gets stolen, I reserve the right to condemn the thief and tut-tut at her for leaving the doors unlocked. That's a jerk move. And a terrible analogy. Using the car as intended and having the manufacturer use the cameras for something other than their intended use is not the same thing at all as failing to use the locks for their intended purpose. Might as well tut-tut at you for using the Internet the next time one of your devices gets compromised.