4 ms·

Yeah I am not a big fan of "difficult decisions" against your people and the whole TINA thing [0]. Historically it's not great. Democracy is about responsibilit

Yeah I am not a big fan of "difficult decisions" against your people and the whole TINA thing [0]. Historically it's not great. Democracy is about responsibility. The people is supposed to assume their decisions and if this is what they want it's what they should get. We are not talking a blocking minority here. Leading against you people works for a while until your rule just become authoritarian. The point of contention here is that Macron says he was elected and discards the conditions in which he was elected. A lot of people voted for him to block the far right lady and not because they were in love with his platform. It's the third time in 20 years this happens and my gut feeling is, there won't be a fourth time following that pension reform debacle, as a lot of people will just stay home the next time around. I hope I am wrong. I guess the responsible behavior would have been to get a big tent government instead of a tone-deaf one. But we get the politicians we deserve. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative

ethbr0 4y ago
The people don't understand a lot of things. That's why representative democracies, voting on the basis of higher level choices, are effective. I struggle to imagine a scenario whereby there is ever broad French popular support for raising the retirement age, even if failing to do so bankrupts the country.
- skywal_l 4y ago
  > The people don't understand a lot of things. Let's agree to disagree. > That's why representative democracies, voting on the basis of higher level choices, are effective. Working 2 additional years is a pretty high level choice I believe. > even if failing to do so bankrupts the country. I keep reading about bankruptcy but I believe this is incorrect. Here is the reason why the government imposed that law: https://www.budget.gouv.fr/files/uploads/extract/2022/programme_stabilite/PSTAB%202022.pdf https://www.budget.gouv.fr/files/uploads/extract/2022/progra.... Quote in french, sorry: La capacité productive de l’économie serait soutenue par les réformes et les investissements du Gouvernement, qui contribueraient notamment à accroître l’offre de travail et à atteindre le plein emploi: réforme des retraites [...]. This is according to the french government. It is its official position. The purpose is to increase the workforce amount. My guess is that the aim is to allow for a pressure on salaries and eventual reduction in pension dues. The cost of labor reduction has been the common thread of french governments for the last 20 years so it would be coherent. The pension system is more or less fine. It has been reformed multiple times already. The mass of baby boomers are on the precipice of life expectancy statistics now and besides you will find plenty of other possibilities to reform the system [0] if this is what you want. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-yJQaa6LE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-yJQaa6LE (in french)
- srge 4y ago
  Exactly. As individual we are protecting our individual interests even if detrimental to our countries.
- cudgy 4y ago
  “even if failing to do so bankrupts the country” The conservative corporate elite have been screaming about bankruptcy for decades in the US due to entitlements, but spending for war and corporate bailouts seems to always pass easily along with the debt level.

ethbr0 4y ago

The people don't understand a lot of things. That's why representative democracies, voting on the basis of higher level choices, are effective. I struggle to imagine a scenario whereby there is ever broad French popular support for raising the retirement age, even if failing to do so bankrupts the country.

skywal_l 4y ago
> The people don't understand a lot of things. Let's agree to disagree. > That's why representative democracies, voting on the basis of higher level choices, are effective. Working 2 additional years is a pretty high level choice I believe. > even if failing to do so bankrupts the country. I keep reading about bankruptcy but I believe this is incorrect. Here is the reason why the government imposed that law: https://www.budget.gouv.fr/files/uploads/extract/2022/programme_stabilite/PSTAB%202022.pdf https://www.budget.gouv.fr/files/uploads/extract/2022/progra.... Quote in french, sorry: La capacité productive de l’économie serait soutenue par les réformes et les investissements du Gouvernement, qui contribueraient notamment à accroître l’offre de travail et à atteindre le plein emploi: réforme des retraites [...]. This is according to the french government. It is its official position. The purpose is to increase the workforce amount. My guess is that the aim is to allow for a pressure on salaries and eventual reduction in pension dues. The cost of labor reduction has been the common thread of french governments for the last 20 years so it would be coherent. The pension system is more or less fine. It has been reformed multiple times already. The mass of baby boomers are on the precipice of life expectancy statistics now and besides you will find plenty of other possibilities to reform the system [0] if this is what you want. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-yJQaa6LE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-yJQaa6LE (in french)
srge 4y ago
Exactly. As individual we are protecting our individual interests even if detrimental to our countries.
cudgy 4y ago
“even if failing to do so bankrupts the country” The conservative corporate elite have been screaming about bankruptcy for decades in the US due to entitlements, but spending for war and corporate bailouts seems to always pass easily along with the debt level.