5 ms·

France is such a shit show right now (source: I am French). The president is weak because of his poor result at last election and the the left is using this to

by srge 4y ago

France is such a shit show right now (source: I am French). The president is weak because of his poor result at last election and the the left is using this to create a crisis in the country. It doesn’t matter that the gouvernement is basically bankrupted and that the boomers will need to be fed, housed, payed and healed all the way until they die. For a 70 millions people country, only 30 millions are considered active and soon we will have 20 millions retirees. And knowing exactly this, the left is blocking the country, attacking to police and burning dumpsters. In Switzerland, retirement is at 65 since a while ago and the retirement is financed through capitalization whereas in France, active people pay for retirees. I let you guess which system proves to be the best for working people and retirees alike…

JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago
> > In Switzerland Switzerland wins because they are few people who make contrarian choices all the time and read the fine print on any international accord to see how they can free ride on the shoulders of all the other signatories. Big countries like France, Germany, UK etc. they cannot be compared with the Switzerlands, Singapores, Hong Kongs of the world.
- srge 4y ago
  I am not a Swiss but your comment sounds pretty insulting for them
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Small countries (Ireland, Switzerland, Malta, Liechtenstein, ...) not only cannot project military power but can barely defend themselves under modern conditions. So they nominally adopt a posture of neutrality and pragmatically turn themselves into tax havens or free ports in order to maintain a pseudo-autonomy. This often leads to the populace being little more than a labor pool in the service of a managerial class.
- Dma54rhs 4y ago
  French retire way earlier compared to other euro small or big states.
yardie 4y ago
The government made a contract and now they want to change the terms. "You pay into this fund now and we'll pay you back at 55....60....62....." What you don't do is change the terms without consulting with the constituents. Because that's how you end your political career in the medium term and cause protests in the immediate term.
olivermarks 4y ago
My take was that Macron was seen as a very unpopular globalist selling out the French people, do you feel this is accurate @srge? As is the case in many places, particularly the USA (where I currently am) the whole left/right party team sports system is often cited by the media to describe the factions and positions of groups of people. I feel this is breaking down, and that we have various anarchists on both the left and right attempting to destroy a system that isn't serving them. This distorts the perception of more moderate voters and positions. I'm highly aware of how tenacious the Gillet Jeunes were prior to the pandemic. https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/01/11/the-gilets-jaunes-are-unstoppable/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/01/11/the-gilets-jaunes-a...
- srge 4y ago
  > very unpopular globalist selling out the French people Yes he was a banker before running for office. The left is pushing this narrative a lot. Forgetting that their leader is a millionaire who never worked in the private sector…
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    I categorize 'the left' as either anarchist/progressives with no practical experience in running anything, the petit bourgeois woke leftist trend fashionistas but with lamentably few actual working class (in some case historically as there are few jobs) moderate left representation. The same issues are also a crisis in the UK (I'm a UK citizen) - ultra wealthy globalist leadership, straw man opposition, angry, frustrated electorate who feel no one is representing them.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    > millionaire who never worked in the private sector That is the most French thing I've heard all week.
    - srge 4y ago
      The net worth of every politician is public. Jean-Luc Mélenchon the leader of the left is an actual millionnaire. He always has been a professional politician. This guy wants to run a country and make it prosper…
pil0u 4y ago
> source: I am French 63% of French continue to approve protests [0] 73% of those surveyed approve when opponents of the reform block toll barriers and allow motorists to pass for free [1] Your opinion does not look representative to me. It looks like French people have a social model that they want to keep. [0] https://www.bfmtv.com/societe/sondage-bfmtv-retraites-63-des-francais-continuent-d-approuver-la-mobilisation_VN-202303290571.html https://www.bfmtv.com/societe/sondage-bfmtv-retraites-63-des... [1] https://www.tf1info.fr/politique/sondage-exclusif-contestation-de-la-reforme-des-retraites-les-francais-approuvent-les-blocages-mais-pas-les-violences-selon-une-etude-tolouna-harris-interactive-pour-tf1-lci-2252711.html https://www.tf1info.fr/politique/sondage-exclusif-contestati...
- srge 4y ago
  A social model has a cost. The choice is not between work longer or not. It’s between work longer or pay more. Macron choses the former. You may disagree but as the 5th republic allows him, he governs and he choses. Also, government is not a popularity contest. In fact, maybe we should trust the politicians especially when they are pushing unpopular reforms. Edit: words and clarity
  - sam_lowry_ 4y ago
    IMO, not all sources of funding are being exploited. For instance, taxes on property should be restrictive to the point that having a second residence would be a net cost, and a third would be only accessible to multi-millionaires. Business can be financially penalized to own property as well and force to sell or operate at loss. Heritage could be better taxed and not just progressively but exponentially and without known loopholes. There are lots of options. The protests just make these options look more realistic, this is why the general population approves of the protests.
    - srge 4y ago
      France is the most taxed country of the OCDE https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prélèvements_obligatoires https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prélèvements_obligatoires Enough said no?
akira2501 4y ago
> The president is weak because of his poor result at last election and the the left is using this to create a crisis in the country. Then the weak President probably shouldn't have used article 49.3 provisions to pass the unpopular law. Considering that the outcome of this decision was obvious and that they were warned specifically that this would happen, I'd say the President and his Prime Minister created this crisis. The people are simply unwilling to let this mismanagement slide.
- srge 4y ago
  The executive order (49.3) is constitutionally legal. The country needs reforms. If you don’t agree vote accordingly at the next elections.
  - akira2501 4y ago
    The people famously love technicalities. Reforms that are not democratic will be met with protest. If you push laws through against the will of the people then expect riots. Point is.. no one is "taking advantage" of the President. It's entirely self-inflicted.
    - srge 4y ago
      Exactly. When did we decide to distrust politicians when they are destroying their own popularity in order to reform the country ?
      - akira2501 4y ago
        That has always been the case. You're approaching this backwards, probably because you're hoping it will allow you to continue to be dismissive without having to put forward an argument of merit based upon the facts. You're also missing the obvious. He could have just retired if he believed this so strongly yet was unable to _convince_ the legislature to pass the law. He clearly wants the job more than he wants his popularity. That is a person who cannot be trusted. This is obvious.
0xDEF 4y ago
Don't even try to argue European politics with the American techbros on this site. They support a violent anti-capitalist revolution in France while fantasizing about gunning down homeless people in San Francisco.
- srge 4y ago
  Yeah I am surprised to be downvoted…
paxys 4y ago
A weak president using executive powers to push through laws that the vast majority of the country opposes is leading to social chaos...who could have predicted this?
littlestymaar 4y ago
France is such a shit show right now (source: I am French). All of that because the president is weak because of his poor result, but he's a narcissist who think he's smarter than anyone else and is unable to even form a majority with the traditional right party who shares most of his agenda. And because he must always be the smartest in the room, the government has to be a bunch of idiots (this is almost a literal translation of quote from the prime minister, the exact quote being «Un gouvernement composé à moitié de débiles»). When you govern a country with less than 30% of citizen's approval acting as if none of their opinions on the subject mattered, no shit people are unhappy and start doing stupid stuff…

by srge 4y ago

JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago

> > In Switzerland Switzerland wins because they are few people who make contrarian choices all the time and read the fine print on any international accord to see how they can free ride on the shoulders of all the other signatories. Big countries like France, Germany, UK etc. they cannot be compared with the Switzerlands, Singapores, Hong Kongs of the world.

srge 4y ago
I am not a Swiss but your comment sounds pretty insulting for them
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Small countries (Ireland, Switzerland, Malta, Liechtenstein, ...) not only cannot project military power but can barely defend themselves under modern conditions. So they nominally adopt a posture of neutrality and pragmatically turn themselves into tax havens or free ports in order to maintain a pseudo-autonomy. This often leads to the populace being little more than a labor pool in the service of a managerial class.
Dma54rhs 4y ago
French retire way earlier compared to other euro small or big states.

yardie 4y ago

The government made a contract and now they want to change the terms. "You pay into this fund now and we'll pay you back at 55....60....62....." What you don't do is change the terms without consulting with the constituents. Because that's how you end your political career in the medium term and cause protests in the immediate term.

olivermarks 4y ago

My take was that Macron was seen as a very unpopular globalist selling out the French people, do you feel this is accurate @srge? As is the case in many places, particularly the USA (where I currently am) the whole left/right party team sports system is often cited by the media to describe the factions and positions of groups of people. I feel this is breaking down, and that we have various anarchists on both the left and right attempting to destroy a system that isn't serving them. This distorts the perception of more moderate voters and positions. I'm highly aware of how tenacious the Gillet Jeunes were prior to the pandemic. https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/01/11/the-gilets-jaunes-are-unstoppable/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/01/11/the-gilets-jaunes-a...

srge 4y ago
> very unpopular globalist selling out the French people Yes he was a banker before running for office. The left is pushing this narrative a lot. Forgetting that their leader is a millionaire who never worked in the private sector…
- olivermarks 4y ago
  I categorize 'the left' as either anarchist/progressives with no practical experience in running anything, the petit bourgeois woke leftist trend fashionistas but with lamentably few actual working class (in some case historically as there are few jobs) moderate left representation. The same issues are also a crisis in the UK (I'm a UK citizen) - ultra wealthy globalist leadership, straw man opposition, angry, frustrated electorate who feel no one is representing them.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  > millionaire who never worked in the private sector That is the most French thing I've heard all week.
  - srge 4y ago
    The net worth of every politician is public. Jean-Luc Mélenchon the leader of the left is an actual millionnaire. He always has been a professional politician. This guy wants to run a country and make it prosper…

pil0u 4y ago

> source: I am French 63% of French continue to approve protests [0] 73% of those surveyed approve when opponents of the reform block toll barriers and allow motorists to pass for free [1] Your opinion does not look representative to me. It looks like French people have a social model that they want to keep. [0] https://www.bfmtv.com/societe/sondage-bfmtv-retraites-63-des-francais-continuent-d-approuver-la-mobilisation_VN-202303290571.html https://www.bfmtv.com/societe/sondage-bfmtv-retraites-63-des... [1] https://www.tf1info.fr/politique/sondage-exclusif-contestation-de-la-reforme-des-retraites-les-francais-approuvent-les-blocages-mais-pas-les-violences-selon-une-etude-tolouna-harris-interactive-pour-tf1-lci-2252711.html https://www.tf1info.fr/politique/sondage-exclusif-contestati...

srge 4y ago
A social model has a cost. The choice is not between work longer or not. It’s between work longer or pay more. Macron choses the former. You may disagree but as the 5th republic allows him, he governs and he choses. Also, government is not a popularity contest. In fact, maybe we should trust the politicians especially when they are pushing unpopular reforms. Edit: words and clarity
- sam_lowry_ 4y ago
  IMO, not all sources of funding are being exploited. For instance, taxes on property should be restrictive to the point that having a second residence would be a net cost, and a third would be only accessible to multi-millionaires. Business can be financially penalized to own property as well and force to sell or operate at loss. Heritage could be better taxed and not just progressively but exponentially and without known loopholes. There are lots of options. The protests just make these options look more realistic, this is why the general population approves of the protests.
  - srge 4y ago
    France is the most taxed country of the OCDE https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prélèvements_obligatoires https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prélèvements_obligatoires Enough said no?

akira2501 4y ago

> The president is weak because of his poor result at last election and the the left is using this to create a crisis in the country. Then the weak President probably shouldn't have used article 49.3 provisions to pass the unpopular law. Considering that the outcome of this decision was obvious and that they were warned specifically that this would happen, I'd say the President and his Prime Minister created this crisis. The people are simply unwilling to let this mismanagement slide.

srge 4y ago
The executive order (49.3) is constitutionally legal. The country needs reforms. If you don’t agree vote accordingly at the next elections.
- akira2501 4y ago
  The people famously love technicalities. Reforms that are not democratic will be met with protest. If you push laws through against the will of the people then expect riots. Point is.. no one is "taking advantage" of the President. It's entirely self-inflicted.
  - srge 4y ago
    Exactly. When did we decide to distrust politicians when they are destroying their own popularity in order to reform the country ?
    - akira2501 4y ago
      That has always been the case. You're approaching this backwards, probably because you're hoping it will allow you to continue to be dismissive without having to put forward an argument of merit based upon the facts. You're also missing the obvious. He could have just retired if he believed this so strongly yet was unable to _convince_ the legislature to pass the law. He clearly wants the job more than he wants his popularity. That is a person who cannot be trusted. This is obvious.

0xDEF 4y ago

Don't even try to argue European politics with the American techbros on this site. They support a violent anti-capitalist revolution in France while fantasizing about gunning down homeless people in San Francisco.

srge 4y ago
Yeah I am surprised to be downvoted…

paxys 4y ago

A weak president using executive powers to push through laws that the vast majority of the country opposes is leading to social chaos...who could have predicted this?

littlestymaar 4y ago

France is such a shit show right now (source: I am French). All of that because the president is weak because of his poor result, but he's a narcissist who think he's smarter than anyone else and is unable to even form a majority with the traditional right party who shares most of his agenda. And because he must always be the smartest in the room, the government has to be a bunch of idiots (this is almost a literal translation of quote from the prime minister, the exact quote being «Un gouvernement composé à moitié de débiles»). When you govern a country with less than 30% of citizen's approval acting as if none of their opinions on the subject mattered, no shit people are unhappy and start doing stupid stuff…