4 ms·

>plenty of unicorns, like Klarna, Spotify, Revolut, Mollie, Just Eat/Takeaway Other than Spotify, most unicorns in Europe are copies of businesses first succes

by pb7 4y ago

>plenty of unicorns, like Klarna, Spotify, Revolut, Mollie, Just Eat/Takeaway Other than Spotify, most unicorns in Europe are copies of businesses first successfully pioneered in the US. PayPal first did digital payments in the 20th century.

qayxc 4y ago
Bad example - PayPal was the fruit of the (then) massively underdeveloped banking system in the US. Europe has SEPA and there was simply little to no need for something like PayPal. Whenever I hear that cheques are still in use in the US, I scratch my head, because outside of the UK I never used a cheque in my life.
- amadeuspagel 4y ago
  PayPal is used a lot in europe[1]. Maybe the Wirecard scandal could have been avoided if only someone had explained that SEPA makes any kind of fintech obsolete. [1]: https://sifted.eu/articles/paypal-tops-european-downloads/ https://sifted.eu/articles/paypal-tops-european-downloads/
  - Woeps 4y ago
    Nobody really uses it tough... it just gets downloaded for those one in a life time transfers that go outside the EU
- pb7 4y ago
  Why is PayPal so popular in Europe then?[0] Significantly more popular than even Visa/MasterCard directly it seems.[1] I didn't even know the extent of it until just now but this is very surprising. 80-90% market share across various major countries. [0] https://ecommercedb.com/news/paypal-usage-around-90-in-europe-and-the-u-s/3940 https://ecommercedb.com/news/paypal-usage-around-90-in-europ... [1] https://ecommercenews.eu/top-3-payment-methods-per-european-country/ https://ecommercenews.eu/top-3-payment-methods-per-european-...
  - ginja 4y ago
    Well, Paypal has been around for longer and works across the world, which explains some of it. But I question the accuracy of these stats - I would expect to see SEPA wires and direct debit being significant everywhere, Multibanco and MBWay[0] in Portugal, TWINT in Switzerland, giropay in Germany, etc Also, even if they are accurate, they rank Joe's homemade soap shop the same as a major retailer, and don't consider how many customers actually use each payment method. [0]: https://www.marktest.com/wap/a/n/id~2985.aspx https://www.marktest.com/wap/a/n/id~2985.aspx
  - microtonal 4y ago
    Because credit cards have traditionally not been popular in Europe. Up to a certain age, my dad was the only person I knew had a credit card. For a long time, PayPal was the most straightforward way to deal with US merchants, because you can link it to an EU bank account. I don’t actually know anyone who uses PayPal for anything but purchases outside the EU. Virtually all payments for online shopping here in The Netherlands are done using IDEAL (which is a system shared by all banks). When I lived in Germany, I did most online purchases through IBAN (you basically give your account number, do a 1 cent verification transaction and it is linked). At any rate, IDEAL is so much better than dealing with all the PayPal crap or using credit cards. Select your bank, scan a QR code, confirm with Face ID and done.
    - pb7 4y ago
      Do your banks not issue debit cards? I understand credit cards being unpopular because the rewards are weak because the transaction fees are low but hard to see how either IDEAL or IBAN are superior to using a physical debit card that you can just tap, or a debit card added to Apple Wallet or equivalent. This will work the exact same way worldwide, whether you're in Europe, the Americas, or Asia, so I don't see how IDEAL is a superior system. I am far, far from a PayPal fan but the ability to seamlessly deal with merchants across the globe from you seems like a pretty good value add. And again, you didn't dispute why PayPal is so popular in Europe.
      - manuelmoreale 4y ago
MrAlex94 4y ago
If we’re talking about online payments: > In Europe, however, non-secure shopping was already happening online as early as the 1980s. Terminal-based services including Germany’s Bildschirmtext (launched in 1983), and Minitel in France (launched in 1982), offered various services including the ability to purchase air and train tickets. https://www.kevin.eu/blog/history-of-online-payments/ https://www.kevin.eu/blog/history-of-online-payments/ Which would appear to be a whole decade before PayPal?

by pb7 4y ago

qayxc 4y ago

Bad example - PayPal was the fruit of the (then) massively underdeveloped banking system in the US. Europe has SEPA and there was simply little to no need for something like PayPal. Whenever I hear that cheques are still in use in the US, I scratch my head, because outside of the UK I never used a cheque in my life.

amadeuspagel 4y ago
PayPal is used a lot in europe[1]. Maybe the Wirecard scandal could have been avoided if only someone had explained that SEPA makes any kind of fintech obsolete. [1]: https://sifted.eu/articles/paypal-tops-european-downloads/ https://sifted.eu/articles/paypal-tops-european-downloads/
- Woeps 4y ago
  Nobody really uses it tough... it just gets downloaded for those one in a life time transfers that go outside the EU
pb7 4y ago
Why is PayPal so popular in Europe then?[0] Significantly more popular than even Visa/MasterCard directly it seems.[1] I didn't even know the extent of it until just now but this is very surprising. 80-90% market share across various major countries. [0] https://ecommercedb.com/news/paypal-usage-around-90-in-europe-and-the-u-s/3940 https://ecommercedb.com/news/paypal-usage-around-90-in-europ... [1] https://ecommercenews.eu/top-3-payment-methods-per-european-country/ https://ecommercenews.eu/top-3-payment-methods-per-european-...
- ginja 4y ago
  Well, Paypal has been around for longer and works across the world, which explains some of it. But I question the accuracy of these stats - I would expect to see SEPA wires and direct debit being significant everywhere, Multibanco and MBWay[0] in Portugal, TWINT in Switzerland, giropay in Germany, etc Also, even if they are accurate, they rank Joe's homemade soap shop the same as a major retailer, and don't consider how many customers actually use each payment method. [0]: https://www.marktest.com/wap/a/n/id~2985.aspx https://www.marktest.com/wap/a/n/id~2985.aspx
- microtonal 4y ago
  Because credit cards have traditionally not been popular in Europe. Up to a certain age, my dad was the only person I knew had a credit card. For a long time, PayPal was the most straightforward way to deal with US merchants, because you can link it to an EU bank account. I don’t actually know anyone who uses PayPal for anything but purchases outside the EU. Virtually all payments for online shopping here in The Netherlands are done using IDEAL (which is a system shared by all banks). When I lived in Germany, I did most online purchases through IBAN (you basically give your account number, do a 1 cent verification transaction and it is linked). At any rate, IDEAL is so much better than dealing with all the PayPal crap or using credit cards. Select your bank, scan a QR code, confirm with Face ID and done.
  - pb7 4y ago
    Do your banks not issue debit cards? I understand credit cards being unpopular because the rewards are weak because the transaction fees are low but hard to see how either IDEAL or IBAN are superior to using a physical debit card that you can just tap, or a debit card added to Apple Wallet or equivalent. This will work the exact same way worldwide, whether you're in Europe, the Americas, or Asia, so I don't see how IDEAL is a superior system. I am far, far from a PayPal fan but the ability to seamlessly deal with merchants across the globe from you seems like a pretty good value add. And again, you didn't dispute why PayPal is so popular in Europe.
    - manuelmoreale 4y ago

MrAlex94 4y ago

If we’re talking about online payments: > In Europe, however, non-secure shopping was already happening online as early as the 1980s. Terminal-based services including Germany’s Bildschirmtext (launched in 1983), and Minitel in France (launched in 1982), offered various services including the ability to purchase air and train tickets. https://www.kevin.eu/blog/history-of-online-payments/ https://www.kevin.eu/blog/history-of-online-payments/ Which would appear to be a whole decade before PayPal?