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If the conversation ends with “be afraid of cops” and not, “let’s organize to change cops”, then you are supporting cops. Like in this instance we need to rally

If the conversation ends with “be afraid of cops” and not, “let’s organize to change cops”, then you are supporting cops. Like in this instance we need to rally around copyleft politicians for the next election cycle so that something like this can’t happen again. We need to have willpower and not be so weak willed to let the rent seekers win.

int_19h 4y ago
"Organize" is hot air without specific plan that has a realistic chance of success. Voting for "copyleft politicians" doesn't, if only because there are so few of them, and further because a candidate has no chance of winning on this as their single issue - it's the rest of their platform that will decide the vote.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  How about a pirate party? I think we could find huge amounts of people sympathetic because most consumers would stand to gain materially from it. It's realpolitik and could be effective in creating a culture support for dismantling copyright. That is what was starting to happen when the MPAA and RIAA started litigating against individuals. They didn't just stop because it was ineffective at recouping losses, it was also undermining the faith people had in copyright.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    The feasibility of such a party depends greatly on the electoral system in any given country. In the USA in particular, our combination of single-member districts with FPTP means that third parties are not viable unless they run on some issue that is really resonant with most of society (to the point where it would override voting considerations on basically all other wedge issues). You have to go all the way back to mid-19th century to find a successful example. In Europe this fared better, but as we can still see, PPs enjoy limited electoral popularity even in systems where representation is truly proportional. Same basic problem here - there are way more important issues than just this one, and a party that doesn't make any stand on those other issues will only attract those few that consider its single issue that important. But then the moment it starts taking positions on other stuff, that also turns off part of the potential electorate, and shifts it closer to a more traditional "for everything good against everything bad" kind of party.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    They said “realistic”. There is zero hope of such a party gaining any traction in the US, partly because of the largely undemocratic way the political system works, but also just because the vast majority of people don’t care about this issue at all.
Ensorceled 4y ago
> If the conversation ends with “be afraid of cops” and not, “let’s organize to change cops”, then you are supporting cops. That's an incredibly extreme take. Giving someone solid, possibly life saving advice, shouldn't need to include your favourite political sentiment in order not to count as explicit support for a unjust system.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  It's implicit support at worst and not that strong of support at that. This is just calling balls and strikes, not trying to impugn anyone for being a police lover. It's probably not bad that we should want for police and those they serve to feel supported to achieve good outcomes, but that takes political action.
- klibertp 4y ago
  Not informing a European or Japanese of how this is a seriously unjust system you have in place - and not just a fucked up joke as it sounds (police? shooting at people? for not stopping the car?!? Haha, nice joke, man) - could definitely threaten their lives though.

int_19h 4y ago

"Organize" is hot air without specific plan that has a realistic chance of success. Voting for "copyleft politicians" doesn't, if only because there are so few of them, and further because a candidate has no chance of winning on this as their single issue - it's the rest of their platform that will decide the vote.

birdyrooster 4y ago
How about a pirate party? I think we could find huge amounts of people sympathetic because most consumers would stand to gain materially from it. It's realpolitik and could be effective in creating a culture support for dismantling copyright. That is what was starting to happen when the MPAA and RIAA started litigating against individuals. They didn't just stop because it was ineffective at recouping losses, it was also undermining the faith people had in copyright.
- int_19h 4y ago
  The feasibility of such a party depends greatly on the electoral system in any given country. In the USA in particular, our combination of single-member districts with FPTP means that third parties are not viable unless they run on some issue that is really resonant with most of society (to the point where it would override voting considerations on basically all other wedge issues). You have to go all the way back to mid-19th century to find a successful example. In Europe this fared better, but as we can still see, PPs enjoy limited electoral popularity even in systems where representation is truly proportional. Same basic problem here - there are way more important issues than just this one, and a party that doesn't make any stand on those other issues will only attract those few that consider its single issue that important. But then the moment it starts taking positions on other stuff, that also turns off part of the potential electorate, and shifts it closer to a more traditional "for everything good against everything bad" kind of party.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  They said “realistic”. There is zero hope of such a party gaining any traction in the US, partly because of the largely undemocratic way the political system works, but also just because the vast majority of people don’t care about this issue at all.

Ensorceled 4y ago

> If the conversation ends with “be afraid of cops” and not, “let’s organize to change cops”, then you are supporting cops. That's an incredibly extreme take. Giving someone solid, possibly life saving advice, shouldn't need to include your favourite political sentiment in order not to count as explicit support for a unjust system.

birdyrooster 4y ago
It's implicit support at worst and not that strong of support at that. This is just calling balls and strikes, not trying to impugn anyone for being a police lover. It's probably not bad that we should want for police and those they serve to feel supported to achieve good outcomes, but that takes political action.
klibertp 4y ago
Not informing a European or Japanese of how this is a seriously unjust system you have in place - and not just a fucked up joke as it sounds (police? shooting at people? for not stopping the car?!? Haha, nice joke, man) - could definitely threaten their lives though.