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> Since the EU is a valuable market For how long? A market is large because it has highly productive economies. If Europe can't hack computers, as you say, the

> Since the EU is a valuable market For how long? A market is large because it has highly productive economies. If Europe can't hack computers, as you say, their growth potential will be curtailed.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Europe can't hack computers, as you say, their growth potential will be curtailed European industry is alive and well, and it can buy the tools it needs from American companies. To the degree "Europe can't hack computers" is less of a ridiculous oversimplification, it's with pertinence to the consumer market.
- shuckles 4y ago
  Is it really alive and well or is it mostly booking profits for activities conducted elsewhere in the world? How much R&D, manufacturing, or distribution do the ABBs and Siemens of the world actually depend physically on the EU for?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > How much R&D, manufacturing, or distribution do the ABBs and Siemens of the world actually depend physically on the EU for European heavy industry expertise is deep [1]. It also undergirds a lot of America production; Rheinmetall, for instance, designs and builds the M1 Abrams’ gun. In light industry, ASML is the product of a distributed precision manufacturing culture. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_European_manufacturing_companies_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_European_man...
discreteevent 4y ago
They could make other things and trade them with the people who do computers?
robopsychology 4y ago
The EU has a higher GDP than the US (albeit they're very close). A lot of strong engineering comes out of Europe, for example Arm or the self-driving work by Mercedes.
- areyousure 4y ago
  (I did not downvote the parent comment.) > The EU has a higher GDP than the US (albeit they're very close). In case anyone was curious, the IMF currently believes that the US's GDP is 50% higher than the EU's = 40% higher per capita. https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/EU https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/EU https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/USA https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/USA
  - robopsychology 4y ago
    You're right per capita, but as a total market the EU is larger.
    - pb7 4y ago
      It's literally not though. EU has a higher population and lower total GDP.
      - robopsychology 4y ago
        You’re right, I was looking at 2015 data
- pb7 4y ago
  US GDP per capita: $75K (PPP), $75K (nominal) EU GDP per capita: $54K (PPP), $37K (nominal) It's not even close. Waymo is years ahead of anything coming out of Mercedes.
  - robopsychology 4y ago
    Which cars can you buy with Level 3 self-driving in the US? What states allow Waymo Level 3+ driving? Yes I can get around the SF Finance District if I sign up to be a beta tester with Waymo, and they do run in Pheonix, but Mercedes has full Level 3 signed off in Nevada. In fact Mercedes have said they will take ownership of self-driving accidents while Tesla for example points it to the individual driving.

> Since the EU is a valuable market For how long? A market is large because it has highly productive economies. If Europe can't hack computers, as you say, their growth potential will be curtailed.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Europe can't hack computers, as you say, their growth potential will be curtailed European industry is alive and well, and it can buy the tools it needs from American companies. To the degree "Europe can't hack computers" is less of a ridiculous oversimplification, it's with pertinence to the consumer market.

shuckles 4y ago
Is it really alive and well or is it mostly booking profits for activities conducted elsewhere in the world? How much R&D, manufacturing, or distribution do the ABBs and Siemens of the world actually depend physically on the EU for?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > How much R&D, manufacturing, or distribution do the ABBs and Siemens of the world actually depend physically on the EU for European heavy industry expertise is deep [1]. It also undergirds a lot of America production; Rheinmetall, for instance, designs and builds the M1 Abrams’ gun. In light industry, ASML is the product of a distributed precision manufacturing culture. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_European_manufacturing_companies_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_European_man...

discreteevent 4y ago

They could make other things and trade them with the people who do computers?

robopsychology 4y ago

The EU has a higher GDP than the US (albeit they're very close). A lot of strong engineering comes out of Europe, for example Arm or the self-driving work by Mercedes.

areyousure 4y ago
(I did not downvote the parent comment.) > The EU has a higher GDP than the US (albeit they're very close). In case anyone was curious, the IMF currently believes that the US's GDP is 50% higher than the EU's = 40% higher per capita. https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/EU https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/EU https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/USA https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/USA
- robopsychology 4y ago
  You're right per capita, but as a total market the EU is larger.
  - pb7 4y ago
    It's literally not though. EU has a higher population and lower total GDP.
    - robopsychology 4y ago
      You’re right, I was looking at 2015 data
pb7 4y ago
US GDP per capita: $75K (PPP), $75K (nominal) EU GDP per capita: $54K (PPP), $37K (nominal) It's not even close. Waymo is years ahead of anything coming out of Mercedes.
- robopsychology 4y ago
  Which cars can you buy with Level 3 self-driving in the US? What states allow Waymo Level 3+ driving? Yes I can get around the SF Finance District if I sign up to be a beta tester with Waymo, and they do run in Pheonix, but Mercedes has full Level 3 signed off in Nevada. In fact Mercedes have said they will take ownership of self-driving accidents while Tesla for example points it to the individual driving.