5 ms·

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular

by mil22 4y ago

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum threshold. Even one drink will kill a few. They don’t grow back. Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper, my code quality has improved, and I feel better. I do not miss it at all.

KptMarchewa 4y ago
>They don’t grow back. >Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper Those are conflicting statements literally next to another.
- mil22 4y ago
  You seem to be misunderstanding the points made in my original comment. The statement "They don't grow back" refers to the fact that alcohol can kill neurons, and these neurons do not regenerate. The subsequent statement, "Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper," does not conflict with the previous statement, as it implies that cognitive abilities can recover after alcohol cessation through mechanisms other than neurogenesis. Firstly, it's important to consider neuroplasticity, which is the brain's ability to reorganize itself by forming new connections between neurons. Even though the number of neurons may not increase, the brain can adapt and compensate for the loss by strengthening existing connections or forming new ones, leading to an overall improvement in cognitive function. Secondly, alcohol impairs cognitive function through various mechanisms other than neuronal death. For instance, alcohol disrupts sleep quality, which in turn impairs cognitive function. When someone stops consuming alcohol, their sleep quality is likely to improve, leading to better cognitive performance. Lastly, regular repeated brain insult from alcohol consumption leads to chronic cognitive deficits, as the brain is consistently affected by alcohol's neurotoxic effects. When alcohol consumption ceases, the continuous damage stops, allowing the brain to recover to a certain extent, even without replacing the lost neurons. In conclusion, the statements in my original comment are not conflicting. Improved cognitive abilities after quitting alcohol can be attributed to factors such as neuroplasticity, improved sleep quality, and the cessation of ongoing damage to the brain.
  - nebulousthree 4y ago
    They conflict if the increase in sharpness is interpreted as a follow-up to the claim that neurons don't grow back. How can there be an increase of function without an "increase" in neurons (they don't grow back)?
- saulpw 4y ago
  Yes, but he didn't notice the juxtaposition. Perhaps the claimed resurgence of sharpness is an increase in self-perception of sharpness only.
dzader 4y ago
Hasn't it been proven recently that they do in fact grow back? Although a quick google seems to have a conflicting info.. so /shrug
- mil22 4y ago
  I am not aware of any such studies but I would be curious if you have references. There are only a few isolated parts of the brain that show neurogenesis (the birth of new neurons) in adulthood - the hippocampus and the olfactory bulb are the primary two examples. Alcohol kills neurons across the entire brain, with volume reductions and microstructure damage in the white and grey matter, and the damage is not limited to any specific areas. There is some functional recovery after abstention from alcohol consumption due to regrowth of synapses and neuroplasticity, much in the same way our brains can partially recover from a stroke even though the neurons in the part of the brain that was deprived of oxygen are permanently lost. However the recovery is not complete and some of the loss of brain volume is in fact permanent.
  - dzader 4y ago
    Nah I don't have any studies just something I had heard but upon some investigation didn't find much in the ways of studies, so probably me just being wrong. thanks for the info!
garyrob 4y ago
There is reason to think red wine, with its unique combination of resveratrol, phenolic acids, and flavonoids, might be an exception to that. For example, the conclusion of a meta-analysis of 12 studies on the subject says: "This study may show a protective effect of wine consumption against cognitive decline. However, it would be important for future research to differentiate the types of wine within consumption." The paper contains a conflict of interest statement declaring no conflicts of interest. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.863059/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.86305...
- mil22 4y ago
  Yes, this is interesting research. If I was going to drink again, it would be limited to red wine and beer (which contains other beneficial compounds). Personally I just take pterostilbene, which is structurally similar to resveratrol and has similar health benefits but is much more bioavailable. Cognitive decline and dementia are multifactorial, and with alcohol consumption there are trade-offs between neuronal death, potential improvements in vascular function, and other things known and as yet unknown. Here's an interesting recent finding from a study of 20K BioBank participants: "Alcohol consumption above 7 units weekly associated with higher brain iron. Iron accumulation represents a potential mechanism for alcohol-related cognitive decline." https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1004039 https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jo...
  - garyrob 4y ago
    Thanks for the mention of pterostilbene which I hadn't heard of before. Will check it out. And for the brain iron article.
  - garyrob 4y ago
    May I suggest that, if you have't already, you get a 23andme. "While light alcohol consumption has been associated with a decreased risk of AD in general [127], this relationship does not appear to hold in ApoE4 carriers. Consumption of any amount of alcohol may increase the risk of AD[Alzheimer's disease] for ApoE4 carriers [128,129,130]. In one study, both light and moderate alcohol consumption were associated with improvement in learning and memory for non-carriers, but with a decline in learning and memory for carriers [129]. Other studies found that ApoE4 carriers who consumed alcohol one or more times per month had a higher risk of AD than those who never consumed alcohol [128] and the risk of AD for carriers increased with increasing amounts of alcohol consumption [130] These data suggest that alcohol consumption should be limited, especially in ApoE4 carriers." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8073598/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8073598/
rimliu 4y ago
Was that the only thing that changed?
- mil22 4y ago
  Over the last two years, yes.

by mil22 4y ago

KptMarchewa 4y ago

>They don’t grow back. >Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper Those are conflicting statements literally next to another.

mil22 4y ago
You seem to be misunderstanding the points made in my original comment. The statement "They don't grow back" refers to the fact that alcohol can kill neurons, and these neurons do not regenerate. The subsequent statement, "Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper," does not conflict with the previous statement, as it implies that cognitive abilities can recover after alcohol cessation through mechanisms other than neurogenesis. Firstly, it's important to consider neuroplasticity, which is the brain's ability to reorganize itself by forming new connections between neurons. Even though the number of neurons may not increase, the brain can adapt and compensate for the loss by strengthening existing connections or forming new ones, leading to an overall improvement in cognitive function. Secondly, alcohol impairs cognitive function through various mechanisms other than neuronal death. For instance, alcohol disrupts sleep quality, which in turn impairs cognitive function. When someone stops consuming alcohol, their sleep quality is likely to improve, leading to better cognitive performance. Lastly, regular repeated brain insult from alcohol consumption leads to chronic cognitive deficits, as the brain is consistently affected by alcohol's neurotoxic effects. When alcohol consumption ceases, the continuous damage stops, allowing the brain to recover to a certain extent, even without replacing the lost neurons. In conclusion, the statements in my original comment are not conflicting. Improved cognitive abilities after quitting alcohol can be attributed to factors such as neuroplasticity, improved sleep quality, and the cessation of ongoing damage to the brain.
- nebulousthree 4y ago
  They conflict if the increase in sharpness is interpreted as a follow-up to the claim that neurons don't grow back. How can there be an increase of function without an "increase" in neurons (they don't grow back)?
saulpw 4y ago
Yes, but he didn't notice the juxtaposition. Perhaps the claimed resurgence of sharpness is an increase in self-perception of sharpness only.

dzader 4y ago

Hasn't it been proven recently that they do in fact grow back? Although a quick google seems to have a conflicting info.. so /shrug

mil22 4y ago
I am not aware of any such studies but I would be curious if you have references. There are only a few isolated parts of the brain that show neurogenesis (the birth of new neurons) in adulthood - the hippocampus and the olfactory bulb are the primary two examples. Alcohol kills neurons across the entire brain, with volume reductions and microstructure damage in the white and grey matter, and the damage is not limited to any specific areas. There is some functional recovery after abstention from alcohol consumption due to regrowth of synapses and neuroplasticity, much in the same way our brains can partially recover from a stroke even though the neurons in the part of the brain that was deprived of oxygen are permanently lost. However the recovery is not complete and some of the loss of brain volume is in fact permanent.
- dzader 4y ago
  Nah I don't have any studies just something I had heard but upon some investigation didn't find much in the ways of studies, so probably me just being wrong. thanks for the info!

garyrob 4y ago

There is reason to think red wine, with its unique combination of resveratrol, phenolic acids, and flavonoids, might be an exception to that. For example, the conclusion of a meta-analysis of 12 studies on the subject says: "This study may show a protective effect of wine consumption against cognitive decline. However, it would be important for future research to differentiate the types of wine within consumption." The paper contains a conflict of interest statement declaring no conflicts of interest. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.863059/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.86305...

mil22 4y ago
Yes, this is interesting research. If I was going to drink again, it would be limited to red wine and beer (which contains other beneficial compounds). Personally I just take pterostilbene, which is structurally similar to resveratrol and has similar health benefits but is much more bioavailable. Cognitive decline and dementia are multifactorial, and with alcohol consumption there are trade-offs between neuronal death, potential improvements in vascular function, and other things known and as yet unknown. Here's an interesting recent finding from a study of 20K BioBank participants: "Alcohol consumption above 7 units weekly associated with higher brain iron. Iron accumulation represents a potential mechanism for alcohol-related cognitive decline." https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1004039 https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jo...
- garyrob 4y ago
  Thanks for the mention of pterostilbene which I hadn't heard of before. Will check it out. And for the brain iron article.
- garyrob 4y ago
  May I suggest that, if you have't already, you get a 23andme. "While light alcohol consumption has been associated with a decreased risk of AD in general [127], this relationship does not appear to hold in ApoE4 carriers. Consumption of any amount of alcohol may increase the risk of AD[Alzheimer's disease] for ApoE4 carriers [128,129,130]. In one study, both light and moderate alcohol consumption were associated with improvement in learning and memory for non-carriers, but with a decline in learning and memory for carriers [129]. Other studies found that ApoE4 carriers who consumed alcohol one or more times per month had a higher risk of AD than those who never consumed alcohol [128] and the risk of AD for carriers increased with increasing amounts of alcohol consumption [130] These data suggest that alcohol consumption should be limited, especially in ApoE4 carriers." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8073598/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8073598/

rimliu 4y ago

Was that the only thing that changed?

mil22 4y ago
Over the last two years, yes.