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Strong worker protections are a major reason that big tech and many other industries have a much smaller presence in Europe and pay far less to Europeans. You'r

Strong worker protections are a major reason that big tech and many other industries have a much smaller presence in Europe and pay far less to Europeans. You're worth less if you might be absent on parental leave for a year at a time. You're higher risk to hire if you can't be fired easily etc. Protections have a cost. My friends that moved to UK/Europe get half their former salary and have much higher living expenses and taxes. I also have several friends that moved to TX because compensation in Europe is terrible.

dingusdew 4y ago
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WeylandYutani 4y ago
It all depends on what you value. Dutch labour laws are not written for highly educated tech bros but designed to protect everyone. Wealth inequality for instance is something that permeates political discourse. Americans don't give a shit about it at all. Making society nicer for everyone and not leaving anyone behind.
- dantheman 4y ago
  Making society nicer for everyone requires investment.
  - smcleod 4y ago
    * in people, not profits.
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  >Making society nicer for everyone and not leaving anyone behind. In the short term, Europe is much better at this than the US, but the long term sustainability of the European welfare state will be under serious threat over the next 50 years due to the horrible demographics of most European countries
  - yladiz 4y ago
    Please cite if you have some sources to back this up, in particular the solvency of the welfare system across multiple European countries and the projected demographics over the next decades. I’m skeptical it’s as anywhere close to as bad as you state here.
    - throwaway6734 4y ago
      Look at the demographic pyramids: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain Massive bulges over 40 that will require support from a shrinking base of young people.
deserialized 4y ago
Maybe if you're from FAANG land. I took 10k cut (90k to 80k) from my salary leaving Seattle but gained a union, 20 more days of vacation, a 8% holiday bonus, 90% cheaper insurance, and 500$ less in rent per month in Amsterdam
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  Yeah, and much lower costs of childcare, schooling?. Much lower chances of gun violence, and exteremeness of inequality in the society. As most things, the comparison is dependent on what state of life you’re at and your preferences.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  "There are only two kinds of people I hate.. people who are intolerant of other people's cultures.. and the Dutch!"
- marcusverus 4y ago
  Your pay cut wasn't significant because you apparently went from earning a ~40th percentile US SWE salary to earning a ~90th percentile Dutch SWE salary. If you had been paid a ~40th percentile Dutche SWE salary, you would have taken a 50% pay cut. My percentiles are based on Payscale data.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  You took way more than $10k cut when you consider taxes involved. Of course this varies state by state, but generally for tech, you net more in US on the average even when you pay for everything that you get with taxes in EU. Starting salaries even outside fang could easily be in like $130k in areas that aren't tech hubs and don't have an inflated COL - in EU this is unheard of.
  - yladiz 4y ago
    Even for tech I’m skeptical of this, and so please cite if you have data to back it up. What are you considering part of what you get in, for example, Germany with taxes, but paid for out of pocket in the US?

dingusdew 4y ago

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WeylandYutani 4y ago

It all depends on what you value. Dutch labour laws are not written for highly educated tech bros but designed to protect everyone. Wealth inequality for instance is something that permeates political discourse. Americans don't give a shit about it at all. Making society nicer for everyone and not leaving anyone behind.

dantheman 4y ago
Making society nicer for everyone requires investment.
- smcleod 4y ago
  * in people, not profits.
throwaway6734 4y ago
>Making society nicer for everyone and not leaving anyone behind. In the short term, Europe is much better at this than the US, but the long term sustainability of the European welfare state will be under serious threat over the next 50 years due to the horrible demographics of most European countries
- yladiz 4y ago
  Please cite if you have some sources to back this up, in particular the solvency of the welfare system across multiple European countries and the projected demographics over the next decades. I’m skeptical it’s as anywhere close to as bad as you state here.
  - throwaway6734 4y ago
    Look at the demographic pyramids: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain Massive bulges over 40 that will require support from a shrinking base of young people.

deserialized 4y ago

Maybe if you're from FAANG land. I took 10k cut (90k to 80k) from my salary leaving Seattle but gained a union, 20 more days of vacation, a 8% holiday bonus, 90% cheaper insurance, and 500$ less in rent per month in Amsterdam

reacharavindh 4y ago
Yeah, and much lower costs of childcare, schooling?. Much lower chances of gun violence, and exteremeness of inequality in the society. As most things, the comparison is dependent on what state of life you’re at and your preferences.
deafpolygon 4y ago
"There are only two kinds of people I hate.. people who are intolerant of other people's cultures.. and the Dutch!"
marcusverus 4y ago
Your pay cut wasn't significant because you apparently went from earning a ~40th percentile US SWE salary to earning a ~90th percentile Dutch SWE salary. If you had been paid a ~40th percentile Dutche SWE salary, you would have taken a 50% pay cut. My percentiles are based on Payscale data.
ActorNightly 4y ago
You took way more than $10k cut when you consider taxes involved. Of course this varies state by state, but generally for tech, you net more in US on the average even when you pay for everything that you get with taxes in EU. Starting salaries even outside fang could easily be in like $130k in areas that aren't tech hubs and don't have an inflated COL - in EU this is unheard of.
- yladiz 4y ago
  Even for tech I’m skeptical of this, and so please cite if you have data to back it up. What are you considering part of what you get in, for example, Germany with taxes, but paid for out of pocket in the US?