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> The goal is not to see more patients Not when you're a doctor in the EU dealing with the shortages of socialized care where you have a limited amount of time

> The goal is not to see more patients Not when you're a doctor in the EU dealing with the shortages of socialized care where you have a limited amount of time to spend diagnosing a patient because there's dozens waiting in the queue. As a doctor you'd like to give everyone better care but you can't because you have too many people to see and too little time. Doctors here are busy AF and sometimes misdiagnose you because they don't have time to look into every possibility of what you might be suffering from. So maybe AI could help there, as in giving them some hints on things they might iss, as waiting for the governments to fix healthcare is like waiting for them to also fix climate change.

iso1631 4y ago
Not when you're a doctor in the US dealing with the shortages of privitised car where you have a limited amount of patients who can afford your time
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  How does the US doctor get impacted by that? Your cheap shot jab at an counter argument makes no sense. You probably mean the patience are dealing with the shortages, not the doctors. Also, I'm only commenting on the EU system as that's the one I'm dealing with right now. Why do you feels the need to start a holy war on how the US system is worse? I have no expertise with the US system so I'm avoiding any comparisons with it.
  - iso1631 4y ago
    The US doctor has an incentive to overmedicalise the patients as he'll make more money by upselling stuff they don't need. An AI assisting the diagnosis is detrimental to that as the AI will be doing the upselling and getting the kickbacks from those "ask your doctor about" advertisers. A doctor could choose to see 20 people a day and charge $100 each, or see 10 people a day and charges $200 each. Indeed perhaps there's an incentive to see fewer people as they'll pay the same hourly rate but cost less to treat as they're just paying $250 an hour to talk about last night's game. Reality is though that 28% of US people have to wait more than a day to see a doctor, far higher than Germany, UK, Sweden and Norway. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-ca... > A common misconception in the U.S. is that countries with universal health care have much longer wait times. However, data from nations with universal coverage, coupled with historical data from coverage expansion in the United States, show that patients in other nations often have similar or shorter wait times. So perhaps AI could help with the disfunctional american system afterall.
RandomLensman 4y ago
The EU has a very heterogenous healthcare landscape
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  That's why I narrowed it down to the socialized part, not the private part as that has next to no shortages.
  - RandomLensman 4y ago
    Even the socialized part is very different in terms of load/structure/waiting times across the EU. Compare Sweden with Germany, for example.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      I'm only commenting on my country (Austria) but I'm sure that's not the only Eu country with shortages in the health system.
shagymoe 4y ago
Do you live in the EU and have experience with the healthcare system there?
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  YEs, that's why I'm commenting on it.
n8henrie 4y ago
Or a doctor in a US emergency department, where EMTALA essentially socializes access to emergency care without creating any provisions for funding said care.
jaapz 4y ago
Yes, there are queues and waiting times in our socialized healthcare here in the Netherlands. One problem is the lack of staff. Also more and more older people getting older than before. Another is the lack of funding due to the government trying to privatize as much as they can get away with (like health insurance), which loops back into the first problem. However, my wife needed medication that was 10000 EUR per dose, which was fully covered by our socialized healthcare insurance. For most things related to health at the most I need to pay a total of 385 EUR per year out of pocket, next to the insurance premium which is about 130 a month. When those 385 EUR is gone for the year, I don't need to pay anything at all. People who can't afford the insurance premium get money from the government to cover that, and if that is not enough and you still can't pay your insurance, you are still eligible for any health care you need and a service will cover for you until you can pay again. There are waiting lists for many things, yes, but mostly for non-urgent, non-lifethreatening things. If you need something done, it can be done. And you won't be thrown into debt to pay for it.

iso1631 4y ago

Not when you're a doctor in the US dealing with the shortages of privitised car where you have a limited amount of patients who can afford your time

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
How does the US doctor get impacted by that? Your cheap shot jab at an counter argument makes no sense. You probably mean the patience are dealing with the shortages, not the doctors. Also, I'm only commenting on the EU system as that's the one I'm dealing with right now. Why do you feels the need to start a holy war on how the US system is worse? I have no expertise with the US system so I'm avoiding any comparisons with it.
- iso1631 4y ago
  The US doctor has an incentive to overmedicalise the patients as he'll make more money by upselling stuff they don't need. An AI assisting the diagnosis is detrimental to that as the AI will be doing the upselling and getting the kickbacks from those "ask your doctor about" advertisers. A doctor could choose to see 20 people a day and charge $100 each, or see 10 people a day and charges $200 each. Indeed perhaps there's an incentive to see fewer people as they'll pay the same hourly rate but cost less to treat as they're just paying $250 an hour to talk about last night's game. Reality is though that 28% of US people have to wait more than a day to see a doctor, far higher than Germany, UK, Sweden and Norway. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-ca... > A common misconception in the U.S. is that countries with universal health care have much longer wait times. However, data from nations with universal coverage, coupled with historical data from coverage expansion in the United States, show that patients in other nations often have similar or shorter wait times. So perhaps AI could help with the disfunctional american system afterall.

RandomLensman 4y ago

The EU has a very heterogenous healthcare landscape

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
That's why I narrowed it down to the socialized part, not the private part as that has next to no shortages.
- RandomLensman 4y ago
  Even the socialized part is very different in terms of load/structure/waiting times across the EU. Compare Sweden with Germany, for example.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    I'm only commenting on my country (Austria) but I'm sure that's not the only Eu country with shortages in the health system.

shagymoe 4y ago

Do you live in the EU and have experience with the healthcare system there?

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
YEs, that's why I'm commenting on it.

n8henrie 4y ago

Or a doctor in a US emergency department, where EMTALA essentially socializes access to emergency care without creating any provisions for funding said care.

jaapz 4y ago

Yes, there are queues and waiting times in our socialized healthcare here in the Netherlands. One problem is the lack of staff. Also more and more older people getting older than before. Another is the lack of funding due to the government trying to privatize as much as they can get away with (like health insurance), which loops back into the first problem. However, my wife needed medication that was 10000 EUR per dose, which was fully covered by our socialized healthcare insurance. For most things related to health at the most I need to pay a total of 385 EUR per year out of pocket, next to the insurance premium which is about 130 a month. When those 385 EUR is gone for the year, I don't need to pay anything at all. People who can't afford the insurance premium get money from the government to cover that, and if that is not enough and you still can't pay your insurance, you are still eligible for any health care you need and a service will cover for you until you can pay again. There are waiting lists for many things, yes, but mostly for non-urgent, non-lifethreatening things. If you need something done, it can be done. And you won't be thrown into debt to pay for it.