4 ms·

so you are saying that the so-called "separatists" form a different "side" from russia tho they both want the war to continue?

medo-bear 4y ago
nothing "so-called" about them. by all definitions of the word, they are separatists, and ones who support russia's intervention. by their account, zelensky can end the war immediately by recognizing independence of donbas, or initiating a referendum
- jnsaff2 4y ago
  If the goal is to recognize Donbas then why the fuck were the tanks rolling towards Kyiv? Why was Odesa bombed? Why did the annexation involve two other regions? Let alone that it is public knowledge that the "separatists" are and always have been under russian control. Little green men came from russia and made the war happen.
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    seperatists are eastern ukranians that dont want to be under central kiev government, run by ukranian nationalists with nazi sympathies. that they would rather see themselves as russian just goes to tell you how much of a failure the right wing policies of the ukranian government have been
  - gdy 4y ago
    Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them. "it is public knowledge" I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...
    - jnsaff2 4y ago
      I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic. Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won. Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder of civilians now? Also you need to go that far back to find anything at all is quite telling. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        its not that simple. ukranian nationalists overthrew an elected, internationally recognised government and as a consequence eastern ukranians revolted. its not very clear that budapest memorandum was violated at that point. no ammount of russia bashing can clarify that
        jnsaff2 4y ago
        "After the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Canada,[25] France, Germany, Italy, Japan,[26] the UK,[27] and US[28][29] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its Budapest Memorandum obligations to Ukraine and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity." Whats not clear about that?
        medo-bear 4y ago
        for one, their authority and capacity to objectively judge. for two, their hypocricy
      - gdy 4y ago
        "Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder" You are confused. You claimed that the sole reason of the war in 2014 was Russian meddling and I suggested you read how the events really unfolded. It's still not too late to do just that.

medo-bear 4y ago

nothing "so-called" about them. by all definitions of the word, they are separatists, and ones who support russia's intervention. by their account, zelensky can end the war immediately by recognizing independence of donbas, or initiating a referendum

jnsaff2 4y ago
If the goal is to recognize Donbas then why the fuck were the tanks rolling towards Kyiv? Why was Odesa bombed? Why did the annexation involve two other regions? Let alone that it is public knowledge that the "separatists" are and always have been under russian control. Little green men came from russia and made the war happen.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  seperatists are eastern ukranians that dont want to be under central kiev government, run by ukranian nationalists with nazi sympathies. that they would rather see themselves as russian just goes to tell you how much of a failure the right wing policies of the ukranian government have been
- gdy 4y ago
  Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them. "it is public knowledge" I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...
  - jnsaff2 4y ago
    I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic. Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won. Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder of civilians now? Also you need to go that far back to find anything at all is quite telling. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      its not that simple. ukranian nationalists overthrew an elected, internationally recognised government and as a consequence eastern ukranians revolted. its not very clear that budapest memorandum was violated at that point. no ammount of russia bashing can clarify that
      - jnsaff2 4y ago
        "After the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Canada,[25] France, Germany, Italy, Japan,[26] the UK,[27] and US[28][29] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its Budapest Memorandum obligations to Ukraine and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity." Whats not clear about that?
        medo-bear 4y ago
        for one, their authority and capacity to objectively judge. for two, their hypocricy
    - gdy 4y ago
      "Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder" You are confused. You claimed that the sole reason of the war in 2014 was Russian meddling and I suggested you read how the events really unfolded. It's still not too late to do just that.