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That people constantly raise, "What about the Uyghurs?" in conversations about the US and China constantly amazes me. After 20 years of constant war in the Midd

That people constantly raise, "What about the Uyghurs?" in conversations about the US and China constantly amazes me. After 20 years of constant war in the Middle East, including the illegal invasion of Iraq (consequence: several hundred thousand deaths), the overthrow of the Libyan government (consequence: a decade of civil war and a complete collapse of living standards), and the two-decade-long occupation of Afghanistan (right across the border from Xinjiang), you'd think Americans would be a bit more self-critical and aware.

botanical 4y ago
That invasion was "war"; which I am and was against. The Chinese government is repressing their own citizens. So why downplay the subjugation and genocide of the Uyghurs? (And I'm not American)
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  The "Uyghur genocide" has a death toll of zero, even according to the people calling it a "genocide." Words like "genocide" shouldn't be thrown around in bad faith. I don't know what's more incredible: that anyone actually bought the "genocide" allegations, or how quickly the media has forgotten about it and moved on to the next hot-button China issue, Taiwan.
  - HyperSane 4y ago
    Modern definition of genocide include intentional destruction of culture, which is exactly what the Chinese are doing.
    - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
      If you take a word that originally meant the mass murder of an entire ethnic group, and then use it to refer to destruction of culture, you're just trying to confuse people. The whole point of calling it the "Uyghur genocide" is to fool people into thinking that China is carrying out mass murder - which is isn't. The retreat to, "I'm talking about cultural genocide" is a bait-and-switch, used once the original accusation of "genocide" is challenged. Even the accusations of "destruction of culture" are incredibly fuzzy. I think most people who believe in the "genocide" accusation would be very surprised to learn that the Uyghur language is still extensively taught in schools in Xinjiang, and is, in fact, still the primary language of education for most Uyghur children. They might also be surprised to learn that some of China's most popular celebrities are Uyghurs, and that Uyghur culture is actually pretty popular in China. The "genocide" accusation is simply made in bad faith. One could actually talk about real political repression in Xinjiang, but that would be much less shocking and sensationalist than making up false accusations of "genocide."
      - HyperSane 4y ago
        OK, lets use the phrase "severe opression" instead of genocide.
        DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
        There's a massive difference between those two phrases. On the one hand, you have political repression of the sort that is common throughout the world, including in democracies like India (see Kashmir). On the other hand, you have the mass murder of millions of people. Somewhere in between, you have the sorts of bloody wars the US has engaged in throughout the Middle East, in which hundreds of thousands of people die.

botanical 4y ago

That invasion was "war"; which I am and was against. The Chinese government is repressing their own citizens. So why downplay the subjugation and genocide of the Uyghurs? (And I'm not American)

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
The "Uyghur genocide" has a death toll of zero, even according to the people calling it a "genocide." Words like "genocide" shouldn't be thrown around in bad faith. I don't know what's more incredible: that anyone actually bought the "genocide" allegations, or how quickly the media has forgotten about it and moved on to the next hot-button China issue, Taiwan.
- HyperSane 4y ago
  Modern definition of genocide include intentional destruction of culture, which is exactly what the Chinese are doing.
  - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
    If you take a word that originally meant the mass murder of an entire ethnic group, and then use it to refer to destruction of culture, you're just trying to confuse people. The whole point of calling it the "Uyghur genocide" is to fool people into thinking that China is carrying out mass murder - which is isn't. The retreat to, "I'm talking about cultural genocide" is a bait-and-switch, used once the original accusation of "genocide" is challenged. Even the accusations of "destruction of culture" are incredibly fuzzy. I think most people who believe in the "genocide" accusation would be very surprised to learn that the Uyghur language is still extensively taught in schools in Xinjiang, and is, in fact, still the primary language of education for most Uyghur children. They might also be surprised to learn that some of China's most popular celebrities are Uyghurs, and that Uyghur culture is actually pretty popular in China. The "genocide" accusation is simply made in bad faith. One could actually talk about real political repression in Xinjiang, but that would be much less shocking and sensationalist than making up false accusations of "genocide."
    - HyperSane 4y ago
      OK, lets use the phrase "severe opression" instead of genocide.
      - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
        There's a massive difference between those two phrases. On the one hand, you have political repression of the sort that is common throughout the world, including in democracies like India (see Kashmir). On the other hand, you have the mass murder of millions of people. Somewhere in between, you have the sorts of bloody wars the US has engaged in throughout the Middle East, in which hundreds of thousands of people die.