4 ms·

russia is the only side supporting the war, russia can fuck off from Ukraine any time it wants and the war will be over immediately.

medo-bear 4y ago
i don't think you speak for all ukranians though https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-russian-attitudes-in-eastern-ukraine https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-ru...
- jnsaff2 4y ago
  so you are saying that the so-called "separatists" form a different "side" from russia tho they both want the war to continue?
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    nothing "so-called" about them. by all definitions of the word, they are separatists, and ones who support russia's intervention. by their account, zelensky can end the war immediately by recognizing independence of donbas, or initiating a referendum
    - jnsaff2 4y ago
      If the goal is to recognize Donbas then why the fuck were the tanks rolling towards Kyiv? Why was Odesa bombed? Why did the annexation involve two other regions? Let alone that it is public knowledge that the "separatists" are and always have been under russian control. Little green men came from russia and made the war happen.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        seperatists are eastern ukranians that dont want to be under central kiev government, run by ukranian nationalists with nazi sympathies. that they would rather see themselves as russian just goes to tell you how much of a failure the right wing policies of the ukranian government have been
      - gdy 4y ago
        Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them. "it is public knowledge" I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...
        jnsaff2 4y ago
        I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic. Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won. Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder of civilians now? Also you need to go that far back to find anything at all is quite telling. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
        medo-bear 4y ago
        its not that simple. ukranian nationalists overthrew an elected, internationally recognised government and as a consequence eastern ukranians revolted. its not very clear that budapest memorandum was violated at that point. no ammount of russia bashing can clarify that
        jnsaff2 4y ago
        "After the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Canada,[25] France, Germany, Italy, Japan,[26] the UK,[27] and US[28][29] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its Budapest Memorandum obligations to Ukraine and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity." Whats not clear about that?
        medo-bear 4y ago
        for one, their authority and capacity to objectively judge. for two, their hypocricy
gdy 4y ago
"russia can fuck off from Ukraine any time it wants and the war will be over immediately" You mean leaving the people of the Crimea, DNR and LNR to the mercy of nationalistic Ukraine?
- jnsaff2 4y ago
  Saving the people of occupied territories from russian rape, murder, forceful deportation, looting of property, etc.
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - gdy 4y ago
    That's not how the life is in Crimea. Ukraine was 'saving' Crimeans by cutting water and electricity supply. As for DNR and LNR, it's as meaningful as saying that Russia is saving people in Ukraine from being burned alive by Ukrainian nationalists [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Unions_House_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...
    - proletar666 4y ago
      You seem to conveniently omit the fact that the first victims in Odessa on 2 May were on the Maidan side, 2 activists, Andrei Biryukov and Igor Ivanov. And that victims of the burning themselves were armed with incendiary weapons: https://youtu.be/FWBGM9G4kF8 https://youtu.be/FWBGM9G4kF8
      - gdy 4y ago
        Classic victim blaming.

medo-bear 4y ago

i don't think you speak for all ukranians though https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-russian-attitudes-in-eastern-ukraine https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-ru...

jnsaff2 4y ago
so you are saying that the so-called "separatists" form a different "side" from russia tho they both want the war to continue?
- medo-bear 4y ago
  nothing "so-called" about them. by all definitions of the word, they are separatists, and ones who support russia's intervention. by their account, zelensky can end the war immediately by recognizing independence of donbas, or initiating a referendum
  - jnsaff2 4y ago
    If the goal is to recognize Donbas then why the fuck were the tanks rolling towards Kyiv? Why was Odesa bombed? Why did the annexation involve two other regions? Let alone that it is public knowledge that the "separatists" are and always have been under russian control. Little green men came from russia and made the war happen.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      seperatists are eastern ukranians that dont want to be under central kiev government, run by ukranian nationalists with nazi sympathies. that they would rather see themselves as russian just goes to tell you how much of a failure the right wing policies of the ukranian government have been
    - gdy 4y ago
      Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them. "it is public knowledge" I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...
      - jnsaff2 4y ago
        I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic. Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won. Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder of civilians now? Also you need to go that far back to find anything at all is quite telling. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
        medo-bear 4y ago
        its not that simple. ukranian nationalists overthrew an elected, internationally recognised government and as a consequence eastern ukranians revolted. its not very clear that budapest memorandum was violated at that point. no ammount of russia bashing can clarify that
        jnsaff2 4y ago
        "After the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Canada,[25] France, Germany, Italy, Japan,[26] the UK,[27] and US[28][29] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its Budapest Memorandum obligations to Ukraine and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity." Whats not clear about that?
        medo-bear 4y ago
        for one, their authority and capacity to objectively judge. for two, their hypocricy

gdy 4y ago

"russia can fuck off from Ukraine any time it wants and the war will be over immediately" You mean leaving the people of the Crimea, DNR and LNR to the mercy of nationalistic Ukraine?

jnsaff2 4y ago
Saving the people of occupied territories from russian rape, murder, forceful deportation, looting of property, etc.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  [flagged]
- gdy 4y ago
  That's not how the life is in Crimea. Ukraine was 'saving' Crimeans by cutting water and electricity supply. As for DNR and LNR, it's as meaningful as saying that Russia is saving people in Ukraine from being burned alive by Ukrainian nationalists [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Unions_House_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...
  - proletar666 4y ago
    You seem to conveniently omit the fact that the first victims in Odessa on 2 May were on the Maidan side, 2 activists, Andrei Biryukov and Igor Ivanov. And that victims of the burning themselves were armed with incendiary weapons: https://youtu.be/FWBGM9G4kF8 https://youtu.be/FWBGM9G4kF8
    - gdy 4y ago
      Classic victim blaming.