2 ms·

Some people have already forgotten, but many others do remember the holocaust, and are quite alarmed by recent developments. As Mike Godwin said: it's okay to c

by mcv 4y ago

Some people have already forgotten, but many others do remember the holocaust, and are quite alarmed by recent developments. As Mike Godwin said: it's okay to call them Nazis if they do behave like that. It had become a meaningless word back when Godwin coined his law, but not anymore. There really is a strong push towards some form of fascism, in the US, in Russia, and in many places in Europe. It's important to call it out and to fight it.

lapcat 4y ago
Well, fascism is another one of those words thrown about too casually and inaccurately nowadays. Going back to my original comment, though, my thesis wasn't that people have forgotten the Holocaust but rather the opposite: people seem to have no historical awareness or metaphors except from World War II. This may explain how these terms such as Nazi and fascist become generic and constantly used hyperbolically: without any other intellectual resources to draw from, people are forced to employ this language inaccurately. When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
- mcv 4y ago
  > Well, fascism is another one of those words thrown about too casually and inaccurately nowadays. Used to. It's unfortunately getting more accurate. Russia is pretty much full-blown fascist right now. Their propaganda ticks all the classic fascist talking points, and Putin is following much of Hitler's playbook. The one thing he lacks is the adoring crowds seeing him as the saviour of the nation. Trump has those. Again, he's doing a lot of the things Hitler did, including an attempt to overthrow the government. Both rely on a glorification of an imagined past to sell their message. Both expect corporations to follow their government's lead. Both demonize critics and opposition, would really like to punish them (from "lock her up" to poisoning and defenetration), block press access (though to very different degrees), undermine civil rights that they feel is at odds with the traditionalism they use to sell their message, and try to sow division between the people who belong and the people who don't. They're doing so in very different ways of course, and of course Putin is much further down that road, but the similarities are there. DeSantis is another example, which his book bans and rewriting education to suit his political message. And see how he treats Disney World for refusing to toe the line and daring to criticise him. All of these are elements of fascism. That doesn't mean they're ready to start another holocaust (though Putin definitely seems to be, and some Trump supporters seem to be leaning that way too), but they're absolutely warning signs, and we should be wary about the direction they're taking us.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > Russia is pretty much full-blown fascist right now. Their propaganda ticks all the classic fascist talking points, and Putin is following much of Hitler's playbook. I mean... Putin is literally a former KGB agent, and Russia was a totalitarian regime until 1991. So I would argue that the Soviet Union is much more relevant in this case, as well as the Russian Empire that preceded it. Russian history is already there, we don't need to go borrow history from Germany or Italy. > DeSantis is another example, which his book bans and rewriting education to suit his political message. This to me is a trivialization of "fascism". And again, there's already a local history available, because American religious conservatives had long tried to ban books and control education, such as the teaching of evolution, sex education, history, etc.

by mcv 4y ago

lapcat 4y ago

Well, fascism is another one of those words thrown about too casually and inaccurately nowadays. Going back to my original comment, though, my thesis wasn't that people have forgotten the Holocaust but rather the opposite: people seem to have no historical awareness or metaphors except from World War II. This may explain how these terms such as Nazi and fascist become generic and constantly used hyperbolically: without any other intellectual resources to draw from, people are forced to employ this language inaccurately. When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

mcv 4y ago
> Well, fascism is another one of those words thrown about too casually and inaccurately nowadays. Used to. It's unfortunately getting more accurate. Russia is pretty much full-blown fascist right now. Their propaganda ticks all the classic fascist talking points, and Putin is following much of Hitler's playbook. The one thing he lacks is the adoring crowds seeing him as the saviour of the nation. Trump has those. Again, he's doing a lot of the things Hitler did, including an attempt to overthrow the government. Both rely on a glorification of an imagined past to sell their message. Both expect corporations to follow their government's lead. Both demonize critics and opposition, would really like to punish them (from "lock her up" to poisoning and defenetration), block press access (though to very different degrees), undermine civil rights that they feel is at odds with the traditionalism they use to sell their message, and try to sow division between the people who belong and the people who don't. They're doing so in very different ways of course, and of course Putin is much further down that road, but the similarities are there. DeSantis is another example, which his book bans and rewriting education to suit his political message. And see how he treats Disney World for refusing to toe the line and daring to criticise him. All of these are elements of fascism. That doesn't mean they're ready to start another holocaust (though Putin definitely seems to be, and some Trump supporters seem to be leaning that way too), but they're absolutely warning signs, and we should be wary about the direction they're taking us.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > Russia is pretty much full-blown fascist right now. Their propaganda ticks all the classic fascist talking points, and Putin is following much of Hitler's playbook. I mean... Putin is literally a former KGB agent, and Russia was a totalitarian regime until 1991. So I would argue that the Soviet Union is much more relevant in this case, as well as the Russian Empire that preceded it. Russian history is already there, we don't need to go borrow history from Germany or Italy. > DeSantis is another example, which his book bans and rewriting education to suit his political message. This to me is a trivialization of "fascism". And again, there's already a local history available, because American religious conservatives had long tried to ban books and control education, such as the teaching of evolution, sex education, history, etc.