5 ms·

> non-democratic country Just because a country is a democracy does not mean it will be a reliable trading partner. Democracies can easily swing from free mark

> non-democratic country Just because a country is a democracy does not mean it will be a reliable trading partner. Democracies can easily swing from free market to protectionist trade policies -- and back. Outsourcing a very large fraction of all manufacturing for half the world to any single country is an incredibly risky idea.

jacquesm 4y ago
A non democratic country has fewer checks and balances on these things than the ones that do. But you are right, that's not a guarantee at all. Just a matter of degree.
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- somenameforme 4y ago
  In the US both tariffs and sanctions can be (and are) unilaterally imposed by the president. Sanctions are crystal clear thanks to the IEEPA [1]. The president needs only declare an emergency, which is typically done in the exact same executive order imposing the sanctions. We're currently under at least 42 different national "emergencies", of which 34 are to impose sanctions. [2] The legal basis for tariffs is less clear, but in effect no different. Trump's tariffs [3] were all passed unilaterally, appealing to all sorts of acts that grant the president conditional tariff powers, but where the condition is framed in a broad enough way to include nearly any rationale. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Economic_Powers_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Econom... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i... [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_tariffs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_tariffs
  - kelnos 4y ago
    But also consider that an act of Congress could modify IEEPA or repeal a specific tariff or sanction that the US president enacts. Perhaps that's a rare event, but those checks and balances are in place. In China, Xi can decide to impose tariffs or sanctions, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
    - somenameforme 4y ago
      I think this issue is what really cuts to the matter. China, on paper, has a similar system in place. Their system is based on tiered elections. You elect a local representative (who has significant power), who then elects (alongside other elected representatives) their representative. And this continues on up to the top where you have the ~3000 members of the National People's Congress who ultimately elect the president. The... NPC. The NPC has immense power. They can override anything Xi Jinping does, and even have the power to completely recall him, or amend the constitution. But of course this won't happen. They have a one-party system with relatively minimal internal conflict. So even though the NPC is genuinely powerful and has every check and balance imaginable, they will not be using them.
sinoue 4y ago
Democracies aren’t beholden to the ego of an authoritarian. Free trade for free countries, and a tyrant tax for authoritarian regimes should be the norm if we want human centered capitalism. https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2023 https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2023
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  "Not beholden", like say, unilaterally waging war on another country without congressional approval?
  - throwawayx134ax 4y ago
    Unfortunately congress did vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Milit... They didn't declare war, which is unfortunate but congress did approve.
    - imwillofficial 4y ago
      This came after the fact, which is not supposed to be how it works.
- pfannkuchen 4y ago
  Free Trade for Free Countries is a decent slogan! I’ve long been disappointed that this isn’t the mainstream position. Anything else feels very hypocritical (for the US).
  - throwawaymaths 4y ago
    Eh, economic engagement with unfree countries got us south korea, Taiwan, probably more in eastern Europe: Albania comes to mind. Afaict disengagement only worked with south Africa.
    - 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago

A non democratic country has fewer checks and balances on these things than the ones that do. But you are right, that's not a guarantee at all. Just a matter of degree.

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somenameforme 4y ago
In the US both tariffs and sanctions can be (and are) unilaterally imposed by the president. Sanctions are crystal clear thanks to the IEEPA [1]. The president needs only declare an emergency, which is typically done in the exact same executive order imposing the sanctions. We're currently under at least 42 different national "emergencies", of which 34 are to impose sanctions. [2] The legal basis for tariffs is less clear, but in effect no different. Trump's tariffs [3] were all passed unilaterally, appealing to all sorts of acts that grant the president conditional tariff powers, but where the condition is framed in a broad enough way to include nearly any rationale. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Economic_Powers_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Econom... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i... [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_tariffs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_tariffs
- kelnos 4y ago
  But also consider that an act of Congress could modify IEEPA or repeal a specific tariff or sanction that the US president enacts. Perhaps that's a rare event, but those checks and balances are in place. In China, Xi can decide to impose tariffs or sanctions, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
  - somenameforme 4y ago
    I think this issue is what really cuts to the matter. China, on paper, has a similar system in place. Their system is based on tiered elections. You elect a local representative (who has significant power), who then elects (alongside other elected representatives) their representative. And this continues on up to the top where you have the ~3000 members of the National People's Congress who ultimately elect the president. The... NPC. The NPC has immense power. They can override anything Xi Jinping does, and even have the power to completely recall him, or amend the constitution. But of course this won't happen. They have a one-party system with relatively minimal internal conflict. So even though the NPC is genuinely powerful and has every check and balance imaginable, they will not be using them.

sinoue 4y ago

Democracies aren’t beholden to the ego of an authoritarian. Free trade for free countries, and a tyrant tax for authoritarian regimes should be the norm if we want human centered capitalism. https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2023 https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2023

imwillofficial 4y ago
"Not beholden", like say, unilaterally waging war on another country without congressional approval?
- throwawayx134ax 4y ago
  Unfortunately congress did vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Milit... They didn't declare war, which is unfortunate but congress did approve.
  - imwillofficial 4y ago
    This came after the fact, which is not supposed to be how it works.
pfannkuchen 4y ago
Free Trade for Free Countries is a decent slogan! I’ve long been disappointed that this isn’t the mainstream position. Anything else feels very hypocritical (for the US).
- throwawaymaths 4y ago
  Eh, economic engagement with unfree countries got us south korea, Taiwan, probably more in eastern Europe: Albania comes to mind. Afaict disengagement only worked with south Africa.
  - 4y ago