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The event that sparked all this conversation is the homicide of Bob Lee. If we're talking about the problem of car break-ins, robberies, or vandalism, that's on

The event that sparked all this conversation is the homicide of Bob Lee. If we're talking about the problem of car break-ins, robberies, or vandalism, that's one thing. But on the matter of homicide, SF (6.35)¹ tracks closely to the national average (7.8)². Property crime is what substantially contributes to the image that SF is an unsafe city. --- [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... [2]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

kortilla 4y ago
You’re still missing the point. The fact that it was Bob Lee and not a drug dealer in a turf war is why the murder statistics don’t capture the issue. 50 random murders is much worse than 50 gang members killing each other from a “how safe is a non-violent person” perspective.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Right, but given that San Francisco has average levels of homicide and presumably drug turf wars are more common in urban areas, that means that SF is particularly safe for a non-violent person relative to baseline.
  - NeverFade 4y ago
    This argument makes no sense at all. San Francisco homicide count is close to the national average, however, unlike most cities, these homicides aren't confined to bad neighborhoods and criminals operating within them, but can affect anyone. Which makes SF far more dangerous to law abiding professionals like ourselves, compared to cities that have the same homicide count, but where the victims are other demographics and not our own.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      > Which makes SF far more dangerous to law abiding professionals like ourselves If San Francisco has national average drug crime as well as above national average rates of "professionals" as well as organized crime, then it seems to follow that if SF homicide count is close to the national average, you are actually less likely to be a victim of a homicide than if all of those homicides were among a small population of "professionals."
      - NeverFade 4y ago
        There's been plenty of evidence posted to this thread showing that SF is more dangerous to law-abiding civilians than other cities. This in addition to the incident that started this thread in the first place: the homicide of a law-abiding professional in an upscale part of SF. You keep trying to counter that with wild speculation that contradicts well-established facts. It simply won't do.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        Could you link me some of this evidence? Or maybe show me how the fact that Bob Lee was murdered proves that SF is more dangerous to law-abiding civilians than other cities?

kortilla 4y ago

You’re still missing the point. The fact that it was Bob Lee and not a drug dealer in a turf war is why the murder statistics don’t capture the issue. 50 random murders is much worse than 50 gang members killing each other from a “how safe is a non-violent person” perspective.

whimsicalism 4y ago
Right, but given that San Francisco has average levels of homicide and presumably drug turf wars are more common in urban areas, that means that SF is particularly safe for a non-violent person relative to baseline.
- NeverFade 4y ago
  This argument makes no sense at all. San Francisco homicide count is close to the national average, however, unlike most cities, these homicides aren't confined to bad neighborhoods and criminals operating within them, but can affect anyone. Which makes SF far more dangerous to law abiding professionals like ourselves, compared to cities that have the same homicide count, but where the victims are other demographics and not our own.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    > Which makes SF far more dangerous to law abiding professionals like ourselves If San Francisco has national average drug crime as well as above national average rates of "professionals" as well as organized crime, then it seems to follow that if SF homicide count is close to the national average, you are actually less likely to be a victim of a homicide than if all of those homicides were among a small population of "professionals."
    - NeverFade 4y ago
      There's been plenty of evidence posted to this thread showing that SF is more dangerous to law-abiding civilians than other cities. This in addition to the incident that started this thread in the first place: the homicide of a law-abiding professional in an upscale part of SF. You keep trying to counter that with wild speculation that contradicts well-established facts. It simply won't do.
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        Could you link me some of this evidence? Or maybe show me how the fact that Bob Lee was murdered proves that SF is more dangerous to law-abiding civilians than other cities?