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The bit about tone policing is under appreciated IMHO. If you are very careful to never offend anyone then you will never be influential. Influence is about c

The bit about tone policing is under appreciated IMHO. If you are very careful to never offend anyone then you will never be influential. Influence is about changing people's mind and people may be offended when you challenge their preconceived notions. Now obviously you need moderation on large discussion platforms. The disproportionate effect of trolls can't be ignored, but it is possible and even easy at times to go overboard and create a space where nothing of value can be discussed. It's the sort of thing you see when people are complaining that a space feels stuffy and corporate.

krapp 4y ago
I disagree. It's entirely possible to have discussions of value between people of differing beliefs without offense, certainly without purposely seeking to offend. That and the "influence" culture it creates is a large part of what people fled to Mastodon to avoid. You don't have a right to come into someone else's space and insist on telling them they're wrong about their beliefs or identity or whatever you take issue with. There are plenty of spaces on the internet where the rough-and-tumble of politics and argument and offense are welcome, but it doesn't have to be everywhere.
- jandrese 4y ago
  What is the point of the internet if not to tell people they are wrong? But more seriously, you don't have to have the intention to offend to run afoul of overly restrictive policies. Even worse this can create an atmosphere of fear that stifles discussion. Self censorship is the most insidious form of censorship.
  - krapp 4y ago
    >But more seriously, you don't have to have the intention to offend to run afoul of overly restrictive policies I don't have the intention to offend because I don't find value in offending people. Most of the people I follow on Mastodon are game developers, programmers or nerds of some sort. A lot of those people are also gay or trans or furries or any number of easily targeted demographics. I don't refuse to respect their pronouns or try to debunk their gender identity or whatever out of fear of the system but because I'm not homophobic or transphobic. Because I don't seek conflict wherever I go. >Even worse this can create an atmosphere of fear that stifles discussion. It doesn't though, there's plenty of discussion on Mastodon as far as I can tell. No one seems to be fearful about it. Not wanting to have the conversations you want to have isn't the same as being afraid to have them. >Self censorship is the most insidious form of censorship. Self censorship is maturity, it's potty-training and big-boy pants for the mind. Your assumption that the only reason anyone would have to exercise restraint and self control being fear is inaccurate. The most effective arguments I've come across counter to my own beliefs have been presented with an implicit respect for me as a person, civility and reason. People who go out of their way to insult me or twist my words in bad faith because they're chasing endorphins rather than ideas aren't liable to convince anyone of anything. And yes, you have to follow the rules of the house. That's not oppression, that's society. If you don't like it, feel free to spin up your own Mastodon with blackjack and hookers, like Trump did.

krapp 4y ago

I disagree. It's entirely possible to have discussions of value between people of differing beliefs without offense, certainly without purposely seeking to offend. That and the "influence" culture it creates is a large part of what people fled to Mastodon to avoid. You don't have a right to come into someone else's space and insist on telling them they're wrong about their beliefs or identity or whatever you take issue with. There are plenty of spaces on the internet where the rough-and-tumble of politics and argument and offense are welcome, but it doesn't have to be everywhere.

jandrese 4y ago
What is the point of the internet if not to tell people they are wrong? But more seriously, you don't have to have the intention to offend to run afoul of overly restrictive policies. Even worse this can create an atmosphere of fear that stifles discussion. Self censorship is the most insidious form of censorship.
- krapp 4y ago
  >But more seriously, you don't have to have the intention to offend to run afoul of overly restrictive policies I don't have the intention to offend because I don't find value in offending people. Most of the people I follow on Mastodon are game developers, programmers or nerds of some sort. A lot of those people are also gay or trans or furries or any number of easily targeted demographics. I don't refuse to respect their pronouns or try to debunk their gender identity or whatever out of fear of the system but because I'm not homophobic or transphobic. Because I don't seek conflict wherever I go. >Even worse this can create an atmosphere of fear that stifles discussion. It doesn't though, there's plenty of discussion on Mastodon as far as I can tell. No one seems to be fearful about it. Not wanting to have the conversations you want to have isn't the same as being afraid to have them. >Self censorship is the most insidious form of censorship. Self censorship is maturity, it's potty-training and big-boy pants for the mind. Your assumption that the only reason anyone would have to exercise restraint and self control being fear is inaccurate. The most effective arguments I've come across counter to my own beliefs have been presented with an implicit respect for me as a person, civility and reason. People who go out of their way to insult me or twist my words in bad faith because they're chasing endorphins rather than ideas aren't liable to convince anyone of anything. And yes, you have to follow the rules of the house. That's not oppression, that's society. If you don't like it, feel free to spin up your own Mastodon with blackjack and hookers, like Trump did.