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I didn't say it has to mean that. 1x is the average. We agree on that. The std can be anything. But the max possible std is 1x. that's all I'm saying. You can

I didn't say it has to mean that. 1x is the average. We agree on that. The std can be anything. But the max possible std is 1x. that's all I'm saying. You can now define the std to be whatever you want up to 1x. So I take the most ludicrously large std then interpret what the term 10x means in terms of the maximum std. 10x is in this case, 10 std from the norm IF 1x was the std. So the 10x concept is ludicrously improbable. The real std is likely much lower than 1x this making the existence of a 10x engineer even less likely. This isn't arbitrary. This is the definitive interpretation using statistics. Science so to speak. If you like to interpret 10x under some crazy uneven scaling or use some other methodology other then science, be my guest. But such actions wouldn't be conducive of a 10xer would it? Which further supports my point.

The_Colonel 4y ago
> The std can be anything. But the max possible std is 1x. that's all I'm saying. And it's wrong. Read the title of this discussion again, "How to be a -10x Engineer" and think about what it means for max. std value.
- Herval_freire 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - The_Colonel 4y ago
    > No one and I mean no one has seen a project accelerate backwards by negative 10. Have you read the article? -10x is not about "accelerating backwards", it's about bringing the project to stand still / significantly slowing it down. And I have seen this multiple times. People who in one way or another managed to slow down other people. Toxic people can create such an environment that the productive people quit. They don't bring smaller value, not even zero value, they bring negative value to the team/project. > -1x means the project is rapidly disassembling itself and engineers are losing knowledge and intelligence. I don't know where you come with this arbitrary interpretation of exactly -1, but yes, that happens to projects.
    - Herval_freire 4y ago
      Bring a project to a stand still with the term -10x? The term itself doesn't make sense. I know the article is generally just talking about bad engineers. However the topic I started here is more about the term 10x. >And I have seen this multiple times. People who in one way or another managed to slow down other people. Toxic people can create such an environment that the productive people quit. They don't bring smaller value, not even zero value, they bring negative value to the team/project. Sure but negative progress or -10x progress or 10x progress is just not realistic. The 10 in the term 10x is the thing that is arbitrary. Not only is it arbitrary it's completely unrealistic. >I don't know where you come with this arbitrary interpretation of exactly -1, but yes, that happens to projects. Arbitrary definition of 1x? 1x is default -1x would be the default but backwards. It's anything but arbitrary as it's the smallest whole number metric for negative performance. The 10 on 10x is again the arbitrary constant here. Why 10? is it because we have 10 fingers or use base 10 in our number system? 10 is Arbitrary. Also, Losing knowledge and intelligence is the equivalent of brain damage so are people banging their heads against walls and shooting up on brain damaging drugs? Doubt it. Productivity stops at zero, negative progress is so rare it's basically non-existent, that is unless you think people are regularly suffering from brain damage. People who use the term 10x or -10x as some kind of relatively accurate metric (like many in this thread are doing) aren't applying good intuition or statistical knowledge to the situation. 2x for really good engineers and 0x for really bad engineers are the more technically accurate term. I get the usage of 10x as purely an expression but that is Not what the topic of this thread as evolved into.
      - The_Colonel 4y ago
        > Not only is it arbitrary it's completely unrealistic. Pick one. Can't be both. > 1x is default -1x would be the default but backwards Not backwards. In terms of value, 1x is a value produced by 1 typical developer. -1x is a decrease of value. > Also, Losing knowledge and intelligence is the equivalent of brain damage so are people banging their heads against walls and shooting up on brain damaging drugs? Organizations lose knowledge all the time because people quit because of e.g. toxicity in the workplace (brought by -10x employees). I guess I'm done with this conversation, it no longer interests me.

The_Colonel 4y ago

> The std can be anything. But the max possible std is 1x. that's all I'm saying. And it's wrong. Read the title of this discussion again, "How to be a -10x Engineer" and think about what it means for max. std value.

Herval_freire 4y ago
[flagged]
- The_Colonel 4y ago
  > No one and I mean no one has seen a project accelerate backwards by negative 10. Have you read the article? -10x is not about "accelerating backwards", it's about bringing the project to stand still / significantly slowing it down. And I have seen this multiple times. People who in one way or another managed to slow down other people. Toxic people can create such an environment that the productive people quit. They don't bring smaller value, not even zero value, they bring negative value to the team/project. > -1x means the project is rapidly disassembling itself and engineers are losing knowledge and intelligence. I don't know where you come with this arbitrary interpretation of exactly -1, but yes, that happens to projects.
  - Herval_freire 4y ago
    Bring a project to a stand still with the term -10x? The term itself doesn't make sense. I know the article is generally just talking about bad engineers. However the topic I started here is more about the term 10x. >And I have seen this multiple times. People who in one way or another managed to slow down other people. Toxic people can create such an environment that the productive people quit. They don't bring smaller value, not even zero value, they bring negative value to the team/project. Sure but negative progress or -10x progress or 10x progress is just not realistic. The 10 in the term 10x is the thing that is arbitrary. Not only is it arbitrary it's completely unrealistic. >I don't know where you come with this arbitrary interpretation of exactly -1, but yes, that happens to projects. Arbitrary definition of 1x? 1x is default -1x would be the default but backwards. It's anything but arbitrary as it's the smallest whole number metric for negative performance. The 10 on 10x is again the arbitrary constant here. Why 10? is it because we have 10 fingers or use base 10 in our number system? 10 is Arbitrary. Also, Losing knowledge and intelligence is the equivalent of brain damage so are people banging their heads against walls and shooting up on brain damaging drugs? Doubt it. Productivity stops at zero, negative progress is so rare it's basically non-existent, that is unless you think people are regularly suffering from brain damage. People who use the term 10x or -10x as some kind of relatively accurate metric (like many in this thread are doing) aren't applying good intuition or statistical knowledge to the situation. 2x for really good engineers and 0x for really bad engineers are the more technically accurate term. I get the usage of 10x as purely an expression but that is Not what the topic of this thread as evolved into.
    - The_Colonel 4y ago
      > Not only is it arbitrary it's completely unrealistic. Pick one. Can't be both. > 1x is default -1x would be the default but backwards Not backwards. In terms of value, 1x is a value produced by 1 typical developer. -1x is a decrease of value. > Also, Losing knowledge and intelligence is the equivalent of brain damage so are people banging their heads against walls and shooting up on brain damaging drugs? Organizations lose knowledge all the time because people quit because of e.g. toxicity in the workplace (brought by -10x employees). I guess I'm done with this conversation, it no longer interests me.