6 ms·

SF is the most progressive city in the US let alone the world and that breed of politics is 100% to blame for it being the poorest run and one of the most crime

SF is the most progressive city in the US let alone the world and that breed of politics is 100% to blame for it being the poorest run and one of the most crime infested cities in the US. Do you even know how much SF is spending on homeless a year? $1.1B a year[1]!!. Your argument is like saying for a drug addict to get healthy they need more hard drugs. [1] - https://www.hoover.org/research/despite-spending-11-billion-san-francisco-sees-its-homelessness-problems-spiral-out https://www.hoover.org/research/despite-spending-11-billion-...

peanuty1 3y ago
I think SF is the second most progressive city, after Portland. And I guess Seattle would be #3. All three of those cities have major crime issues.
kevviiinn 3y ago
I think you missed the point the person you're replying to was making. Democrats are not on the left, we have two right wing parties in the US which leaves people with no real choice
- softjobs 3y ago
  In part because the corporate media largely ignores non-duopoly parties (btw, note that both the Democrat and Republican Party are private corporations).
- xvedejas 3y ago
  In San Francisco, the Democratic politicians are most certainly on the left, even the "moderate" wing. Look at candidate statements from any of the past decade of elections for any city-wide position, and find us anything that sounds right-wing from a top candidate, if you think otherwise.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    I'm very aware of US politicians, what I'm saying is that people who think they're leftists are entirely wrong. There are no leftist US politicians, they are all right wing capitalists. All democrats, with the exception of maybe Bernie sanders, are center right or far right. If you think US politicians are leftists then you have too local of a perspective, in time and space. The spectrum is far bigger than you seem to comprehend
    - xvedejas 3y ago
      I used to consider myself a supporter of Sanders, and even thinking from that perspective ... no, you clearly have no clue about the state of political rhetoric in San Francisco over the last decade.
      - kevviiinn 3y ago
        Feel free to enlighten me, I'm happy to read whatever links you post
        xvedejas 3y ago
        I recommend you look at each member of the SF board of supervisors (https://sfbos.org/ https://sfbos.org/, each member has a descriptive blurb if you click on their name), and if you can find their campaign websites as well, it will give you a view into what politics and policies the city politicians publicly support. I would certainly expect you might not find them far-left, as you seem steadfastly far-left yourself, but I guarantee you'll not find one right-of-center thing. They also all have twitter accounts if you _really_ need more of an idea of their rhetoric.
        kevviiinn 3y ago
        Most of those policies in their bios I would describe as neoliberal. There's one only who describes himself as a "democratic socialist" but as I've seen from the rest of american politics that actually doesn't mean a whole lot without action
hashmap 3y ago
It's a liberal city, not a progressive one. That analogy is quite bad and I think you know that - there is no answer to the problem of homelessness that does not involve spending large amounts of money, and the implying that the answer doesn't is quite dark.
- kareemsabri 3y ago
  No, it's a progressive one. Their policies on drugs, policing, homelessness, enforcement, housing, zoning are all progressive. Why do you think it is "liberal" and what would a "real" progressive city look like, then?
  - komali2 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - kareemsabri 3y ago
      I don't think I've seen a comment with so much wrong crammed into it. > Take a breath from American politics for a second and it's abundantly clear that SF politicians, and policies, are peak Liberal America. > For Americans, that looks like communism I guess. For the rest of us, it's milquetoast centrism and performative virtue signaling to further protect capital interests. I'm not American. I've lived the majority of my life in Canada, and about 8 years in America now. It doesn't look like communism. Being "progressive" does mean enacting communism, though if that's your bar, yeah I agree San Francisco isn't communist. You're kind of all over the map here, but your general claim seems to be that because San Francisco is not successful at achieving the desirable outcomes of progressive policies (low incarceration, safety, material needs met, low income inequality), it's not progressive. And cause they have empty houses? That's just... bizarre. Everyone knows it's a failed city. That doesn't make it "milquetoast liberal". You know it's a city right? It has to operate within the constraints of the nation it's a part of. Comparing to to sovereign nations that have the full autonomy of the state to enact their policies (Norway, Singapore, Japan) makes no sense. I'll try to zero in on a few well known progressive policies in San Francisco. - open air drug markets have been allowed to operate with impunity, drug laws are generally not enforced - harm reduction programs for drug addicts, here's a list of needle exchange places in San Francisco for example https://endhepcsf.org/san-francisco-needle-exchange-schedule/ https://endhepcsf.org/san-francisco-needle-exchange-schedule... - they do provide low cost, and even free, housing for homeless people, addicts etc. I'm not going to link this for you but it's easy to find - they have long been a sanctuary city and do not aid in enforcement of the immigration policies of the federal government - here is their universal healthcare - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco it's been around for 15 years - they elected Chesa Boudin. the "cold feet" they got was cause people aren't safe in San Francisco. people prefer not to be robbed or killed, even progressive ones The American Overton Window is irrelevant. San Francisco's policies are progressive on an international scale. Then you want to "turn it to me" and actually put stuff in quotes I've never said lol. Who are you arguing with? I never said anything about restorative justice (I'm actually fairly sympathetic to it). I said San Francisco has enacted a significant number of progressive policies. It has. That's really it.
enriquec 3y ago
have you ever heard a leftist not say that the problem is that they weren't far left enough?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ookdatnog 3y ago
SF might be the a progressive city for US standards but there are many cities in the rest of the western world with social democrat governments, sometimes even under social democrat national governments, which have much lower crime rates. If you're going to blame progressive politics in general, you need an explanation for that fact. It seems to me that rising crime in the western world is a general pattern. The biggest port city in my (European) country (still pretty small compared to big US cities, granted) switched to a right-wing nationalist government about a decade ago, after literal decades of unbroken social democrat rule. And gang violence has only gone up since then. I'm not blaming the current mayor for that, because other nearby cities are suffering from the same problem, including those run by social democrats. But the policies that the right wing have been shouting would definitely work to keep crime down haven't been working here, demonstrably.

peanuty1 3y ago

I think SF is the second most progressive city, after Portland. And I guess Seattle would be #3. All three of those cities have major crime issues.

kevviiinn 3y ago

I think you missed the point the person you're replying to was making. Democrats are not on the left, we have two right wing parties in the US which leaves people with no real choice

softjobs 3y ago
In part because the corporate media largely ignores non-duopoly parties (btw, note that both the Democrat and Republican Party are private corporations).
xvedejas 3y ago
In San Francisco, the Democratic politicians are most certainly on the left, even the "moderate" wing. Look at candidate statements from any of the past decade of elections for any city-wide position, and find us anything that sounds right-wing from a top candidate, if you think otherwise.
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  I'm very aware of US politicians, what I'm saying is that people who think they're leftists are entirely wrong. There are no leftist US politicians, they are all right wing capitalists. All democrats, with the exception of maybe Bernie sanders, are center right or far right. If you think US politicians are leftists then you have too local of a perspective, in time and space. The spectrum is far bigger than you seem to comprehend
  - xvedejas 3y ago
    I used to consider myself a supporter of Sanders, and even thinking from that perspective ... no, you clearly have no clue about the state of political rhetoric in San Francisco over the last decade.
    - kevviiinn 3y ago
      Feel free to enlighten me, I'm happy to read whatever links you post
      - xvedejas 3y ago
        I recommend you look at each member of the SF board of supervisors (https://sfbos.org/ https://sfbos.org/, each member has a descriptive blurb if you click on their name), and if you can find their campaign websites as well, it will give you a view into what politics and policies the city politicians publicly support. I would certainly expect you might not find them far-left, as you seem steadfastly far-left yourself, but I guarantee you'll not find one right-of-center thing. They also all have twitter accounts if you _really_ need more of an idea of their rhetoric.
        kevviiinn 3y ago
        Most of those policies in their bios I would describe as neoliberal. There's one only who describes himself as a "democratic socialist" but as I've seen from the rest of american politics that actually doesn't mean a whole lot without action

hashmap 3y ago

It's a liberal city, not a progressive one. That analogy is quite bad and I think you know that - there is no answer to the problem of homelessness that does not involve spending large amounts of money, and the implying that the answer doesn't is quite dark.

kareemsabri 3y ago
No, it's a progressive one. Their policies on drugs, policing, homelessness, enforcement, housing, zoning are all progressive. Why do you think it is "liberal" and what would a "real" progressive city look like, then?
- komali2 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - kareemsabri 3y ago
    I don't think I've seen a comment with so much wrong crammed into it. > Take a breath from American politics for a second and it's abundantly clear that SF politicians, and policies, are peak Liberal America. > For Americans, that looks like communism I guess. For the rest of us, it's milquetoast centrism and performative virtue signaling to further protect capital interests. I'm not American. I've lived the majority of my life in Canada, and about 8 years in America now. It doesn't look like communism. Being "progressive" does mean enacting communism, though if that's your bar, yeah I agree San Francisco isn't communist. You're kind of all over the map here, but your general claim seems to be that because San Francisco is not successful at achieving the desirable outcomes of progressive policies (low incarceration, safety, material needs met, low income inequality), it's not progressive. And cause they have empty houses? That's just... bizarre. Everyone knows it's a failed city. That doesn't make it "milquetoast liberal". You know it's a city right? It has to operate within the constraints of the nation it's a part of. Comparing to to sovereign nations that have the full autonomy of the state to enact their policies (Norway, Singapore, Japan) makes no sense. I'll try to zero in on a few well known progressive policies in San Francisco. - open air drug markets have been allowed to operate with impunity, drug laws are generally not enforced - harm reduction programs for drug addicts, here's a list of needle exchange places in San Francisco for example https://endhepcsf.org/san-francisco-needle-exchange-schedule/ https://endhepcsf.org/san-francisco-needle-exchange-schedule... - they do provide low cost, and even free, housing for homeless people, addicts etc. I'm not going to link this for you but it's easy to find - they have long been a sanctuary city and do not aid in enforcement of the immigration policies of the federal government - here is their universal healthcare - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco it's been around for 15 years - they elected Chesa Boudin. the "cold feet" they got was cause people aren't safe in San Francisco. people prefer not to be robbed or killed, even progressive ones The American Overton Window is irrelevant. San Francisco's policies are progressive on an international scale. Then you want to "turn it to me" and actually put stuff in quotes I've never said lol. Who are you arguing with? I never said anything about restorative justice (I'm actually fairly sympathetic to it). I said San Francisco has enacted a significant number of progressive policies. It has. That's really it.

enriquec 3y ago

have you ever heard a leftist not say that the problem is that they weren't far left enough?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

ookdatnog 3y ago

SF might be the a progressive city for US standards but there are many cities in the rest of the western world with social democrat governments, sometimes even under social democrat national governments, which have much lower crime rates. If you're going to blame progressive politics in general, you need an explanation for that fact. It seems to me that rising crime in the western world is a general pattern. The biggest port city in my (European) country (still pretty small compared to big US cities, granted) switched to a right-wing nationalist government about a decade ago, after literal decades of unbroken social democrat rule. And gang violence has only gone up since then. I'm not blaming the current mayor for that, because other nearby cities are suffering from the same problem, including those run by social democrats. But the policies that the right wing have been shouting would definitely work to keep crime down haven't been working here, demonstrably.