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Have you ever been to Tokyo? One of the largest cities in the world yet has way way lower robberies/homicides than US cities.
by robopsychology 4y ago
Have you ever been to Tokyo? One of the largest cities in the world yet has way way lower robberies/homicides than US cities.
- za3faran 4y agoAlso many Gulf states and cities (Dubai, Sharjah, etc.).
- ThrowawayTestr 4y agoJapan is one of the most racially homogenous countries on earth.
- eastbound 4y agoNo relation to criminality, there are many countries with racially diverse backgrounds and peaceful communities. Sydney is one of them and Sydney has both Whites and Asians. Singapore has a lot of all of them. It’s not the homogeneity.
- papa-whisky 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots
- eastbound 4y agoExactly as I said, violence is not due to the mix between Asians and Whites, therefore it’s not mixing people that causes violence. It’s inviting the wrong people. Please read the first line in the main body of your article and you’ll find the answer. It’s so predictable it’s more accurate than science.
- zztop44 4y agoSorry, but it sounds like you’re saying that allowing the “wrong” type of immigrant is what causes violence and using Cronulla as evidence? Cronulla was a one-off event almost 20 years ago, was extremely shocking and out of the ordinary, and as far as I can remember no-one died. As such, it’s not a great example of anything much, other than the fact that ethnic tensions existed between white and Arab communities in Australia in the mid-2000s (which is not all that surprising given the context of 9/11, the Iraq War, etc) I do agree with your first point, however, that Sydney is a good example of one of the most multicultural cities in the world being quite safe, without requiring authoritarian policing (lockouts and drug dogs in train stations aside)
- wolverine876 4y agoAre you trying to hint a racist ideology, that the "wrong people" are some race you don't like. Maybe individuals make their own choices, and the ones who choose to be racists are the wrong people. What a dream if they all left for their own country.
- eastbound 4y agoLook, absolutely everyone in this entire page is trying to dodge strictly enforced DDR Germany-style taboo about saying the truth, so I’m not gonna say what is the obvious source of most criminality in the West. But I’ll stop you right there from swaying the blame onto someone else and reaching entirely false conclusions. What crime is NOT due to: - Crime is not due to poverty. Plenty of poor cities who aren’t violent. - Crime is not due to previous crime. Put white felons on an island and you get Australia, as the joke says. - Crime is not due to high-density area. Tokyo. - Crime is not due to immigration or displacing population. Ukraine migrant kids who spoke French astonishingly fluently in 6 months, a better score than all kids from “other” French backgrounds. - Crime is not due to mixing population. Singapore. Each of them is easily proven by finding great counter-examples of constructive people being moved/concentrated to place X or Z and not having high criminality. It must be something else, something which can be found in all evoked areas and not found in peaceful areas, but I’m not going to say it. Is it water?
- pcthrowaway 4y agoIt.. sounds like you are hinting that you think the violence is caused by a specific ethnicity of people? Because if you're not, it'd be good to make that clear. Maybe you're saying it's a result of imported cultural values that encourages violence? Also, your list doesn't mean some combination of those things can't result in worsening incidence of violent crime. My own belief is that its some combination of: - Extreme wealth inequality - High cost of living - High incidence of poverty (relative to the aforementioned cost of living) - Poor social safety net - Poor community cohesion and trust - Individualistic cultural attitudes (as opposed to collectivist cultural attitudes) - Poor public protection - Easy access to drugs (including alcohol) I think the drugs just become a symptom of the problem; people get addicted because they are suffering (see rat park). They develop antisocial behaviours, which reduces community cohesion and trust. The city then becomes less happy overall, and it becomes a cycle
- smsm42 4y agoThat sounds a bit racist, like "certain racial setups can live in prosperity, but as soon as you get certain other races in the mix, you should abandon all hope of having good quality of life". I prefer to think mutable policies have more to do with it than immutable genetic traits.
- huhhii77 4y agoBluebirds tend to prefer the company of other bluebirds
- wolverine876 4y agoYou mean, they don't create fictional 'races' of bluebirds and then spread hate about each other, including by asserting it's somehow inevitable? Oh, to be a bluebird rather than a Hacker News reader today.
- huhhii77 4y ago[flagged]
- trafficante 4y agoAs far as real world examples, there does seem to be evidence of an unfortunate “safe city” axis requiring either racial/cultural homogeneity or extremely heavy handed authoritarianism. Ironically, America in the 90s and early 2000s seemed to be approaching a sweet spot where cultural expectations and “mild” authoritarian policing were successful at crushing urban crime rates. This whole thread is full of longtime West Coasters bemoaning how much better city life was in “the good old days” of 10-15 years ago. Odd how there’s zero political will to simply go back to what worked.
- thephyber 4y agoSo you point out that it doesn’t match your priors and double down on not exploring whether your priors are correct. I find it more useful to be curious whether the parent’s stats are correct. Also worth pointing out that homogeneity isn’t only along an axis of race. Example: There are plenty of Mexican Americans who are extremely racist towards newer Mexican immigrants to their neighborhoods. LATimes has done several pieces about this dynamic. People will always find reasons to put other people in categories. Also worth pointing out that the society in Japan is more overtly racist towards outsiders of any race. My source is a life-long friend (white American living in Japan for 15+ years) who overheard lots of conversations when the locals think he doesn’t understand their words. America has been a “melting pot” for a while, so we have moved our racial/homogeneity issues at least one layer below polite discussion. Most Americans will put up a façade about not being racist, but don’t actually put any effort to align their behaviors.
- medler 4y agoPeople say this but are never able to offer any evidence for this claim. The fact is that Japan is much less homogeneous than white westerners tend to believe, and has liberalized immigration substantially in recent years. You’ll hear stats about the high percentage of Japanese people in Japan, but those statistics invariably refer to Japanese citizens, not ethnic Japanese.
- bart_spoon 4y agoYes, but Japan isn’t safe and harmonious because of racial makeup, it’s save and harmonious because of cultural inclinations. In Japan, the individual defines themselves with a much greater emphasis on their place in society. Societal good is given far more importance than in other countries. In Western nations, individualism is so strong it borders on narcissism, in my opinion, and a consideration for society always takes back seat to the individual. Countries like the US will never achieve the social cohesion of Japan, not because of racial makeup, but because we are too obsessed with ourselves. At least, that’s my belief as an American who has spent several years living in Japan.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y ago>Japan isn’t safe and harmonious because of racial makeup, it’s save and harmonious because of cultural inclinations. Perchance those things are related?
- NeutralCrane 4y agoYou think that cultural values are influenced by race? I certainly don’t. Culture a construct, not genetically determined. Let me put it this way, if you waved a wand to make America as racially homogenous as Japan, it would still have all the same discord because it would still all be Americans, and American culture is narcissistic and sociopathic.
- decafninja 4y agoI’d say it’s more influenced by having common ground with your fellow citizens, and race is one potential factor. It’s why even in America you see racial/ethnic blocs and enclaves form. Hence the mentions of an “Asian voting bloc” or “Hispanic voting bloc”, during elections. Would we be hearing about such things if the US was monoracial? Even among many divisions, it would be one less divisive factor. (yes, I’m aware in the past things were carved up even among whites - such as Italians vs. Irish etc)
- jerojero 4y ago
- slaw 4y agoJamaica is also one of the most racially homogeneous countries on earth. Yet safety there is the opposite from Japan.
- a_bonobo 4y agoThis is a myth - Japan does not collect data on ethnicity/background [1], so we just don't know. Japan has a (to foreigners) invisible and extensive caste system [2] and a long history of looking down at Japanese of Korean background (who are quite common, but again, there are no official stats by Japan - South Korea tracks about 800k people in Japan [3]), plus all those Japanese of Brazilian background (Brazil estimates at least 1.4 million of those [4] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34615972 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34615972 [2] https://qz.com/2029525/the-20-countries-that-dont-collect-racial-and-ethnic-census-data https://qz.com/2029525/the-20-countries-that-dont-collect-ra... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilians
- eldaisfish 4y agoYour sources have little to nothing to do with the racial homogeneity in Japan although your initial point is correct - Japan does not collect data on ethnicity. A glance at Japan's history and geography will tell you that Japan is an incredibly homogenous country as far as ethnicity goes.
- a_bonobo 4y ago'Racial homogeneity' is not a thing in biology Furthermore, up until 1869 Hokkaido was a separate kingdom peopled by the Ainu - Japan has a long history of exchanging people with Korea. It's not some fabled walled-off kingdom, it's a regular country full of regular people
- cat_plus_plus 4y agoAnd Fremont or Cupertino are murder capitals of the world by that logic? Nah. Even unskilled immigration reduces local crimes rates in US. Kind of obvious, people who made an effort to come to a country tend to try hard to make it work.
- TimDotC 4y agoI'm all for adopting policies that resemble that of Japan/Tokyo. However, half the country would accuse you of autocratic behavior and infringing on constitutional rights.
- smsm42 4y agoI am having hard time thinking about any example where San Francisco government did not implement some policy because the other half of the country didn't like it. If anything, that'd be even more reason for them to implement it, just to "own" "those stupid idiots".
- anotherman554 4y agoThe San Francisco government is not the only source of policy in San Francisco. If the San Francisco government wanted to implement strict gun control like they have in Tokyo, for example, they would be blocked by the Supreme Court judges elected by the rest of the country.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> Supreme Court judges elected Not how that works.
- anotherman554 4y agoI'm well aware of how it works. The country votes into office the politicians who nominate and vote for the Supreme Court judges. If I was being more careful I could have written the country "indirectly elects" the Supreme Court judges. My basic point still stands, San Francisco policy is in many ways set by the entire country.
- smsm42 4y agoErr, SF had strict gun control for years. Getting carry permit in the whole Bay Area has been mostly a "who do you know" thing. Recent SCOTUS decisions made that approach theoretically illegal, but in practice the city is still requires long procedure to get a permit, and is not very generous with permits: So far the city is processing 72 applications, and they expect to get nearly 100 to 200 more over the next year. Which is very different from the four we processed in the past 10 or so years Source: https://californiaglobe.com/articles/san-francisco-begins-issuing-more-concealed-carry-permits-following-2022-supreme-court-ruling/ https://californiaglobe.com/articles/san-francisco-begins-is... Certainly 100 permits a year are not going to change things much and definitely four issued in the last 10 years didn't, and if anything sounds like "strict gun control", then four people allowed to carry in 10 years is it.
- cat_plus_plus 4y agoJapan is in the middle of demographic collapse, obviously you don't see a lot of murders in retirement communities (though LA and Half Moon Bay shooters gave it a try a few months back).
- midoridensha 4y agoIf you think Tokyo is a "retirement community", you've obviously never been here.
- decafninja 4y agoAs someone else mentioned, Japan is one of the most culturally homogenous societies in the world. Japan takes few immigrants, but those that do immigrate there are expected to be guests and live within the established norms of Japanese culture and society. That’s the opposite mindset of the US - especially the liberal leaning areas, where the society is expected to accept and respect diversity and differences. You can immigrate to Japan as a Westerner (or even as a outwardly similar looking East Asian from Korea or China, etc), live there for decades and become fully assimilated into Japanese society, even gain citizenship, but still be treated as an outsider - not necessarily disrespectfully. You could probably say the same for other East Asian countries such as Korea, China, Taiwan, etc.