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This is very bizarre. All sanctions have carve-outs for exactly the Cisco products (so that customers can always safely get online!) Now it will all get replace

This is very bizarre. All sanctions have carve-outs for exactly the Cisco products (so that customers can always safely get online!) Now it will all get replaced with Huawei products. How is this better?

7thaccount 4y ago
Fair point. I don't think we've thought through all the implications of this.
mtnGoat 4y ago
Until they are replaced they will not get updates, leaving them open for possible intrusions. Let them have Chinese equipment, starving them of western technology to reverse engineer, steal or sell to competitors isn’t a bad thing either.
- monocasa 4y ago
  I doubt they have a problem putting their hands on enough IP to reverse engineer, despite the sanctions.
  - TulliusCicero 4y ago
    Probably, but will they be able to reverse engineer and produce successfully? Everything I've read about Russia indicates that, while they have plenty of smart engineers*, the business culture and civic society are so messed up that they have lots of problems actually making things in practice. Too much corruption and people trying to take advantage of each other. * Well, maybe less now, since so many IT workers fled
    - monocasa 4y ago
      But any problems there aren't an issue of sourcing units to reverse engineer. Practically, the sanctions won't function that way.
      - TulliusCicero 4y ago
        Sanctions might make production harder in other ways, limiting access to machines that make machines, for instance.
TulliusCicero 4y ago
Part of the point of sanctions is to reduce Russia's options, it's understood that some products will just get replaced by ones from outside the geopolitical "West". Presumably they weren't already using those other options before because they were worse for some reason or another, and so it still hurts to have to switch. Plus, having fewer options may mean it's harder to negotiate a good deal.
- postalrat 4y ago
  Whatever the reason was clearly it was a mistake.
  - TulliusCicero 4y ago
    A mistake to...sanction a country for invading their democratic neighbor for no other reason than imperial ambitions? A country that's kidnapping children en masse and flinging missiles at civilian targets while speedrunning their way to maximum war crimes? No, it would've been wrong not to sanction Russia. The West's only mistake has been not sending arms to Ukraine even faster.
    - kfkfofpspwp 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - TulliusCicero 4y ago
        Sad to see the conspiracy theorists here.
    - postalrat 4y ago
      No. It was a mistake for Russia to use technology from the west and not China.
      - TulliusCicero 4y ago
        If they were going to try and conquer their neighbors, then yes. Western countries and businesses were happy to sell to Russia indefinitely before they attacked Ukraine.
josephcsible 4y ago
It's obviously bad when Western countries use Huawei products, but I don't immediately see why it's bad when Russia does.

7thaccount 4y ago

Fair point. I don't think we've thought through all the implications of this.

mtnGoat 4y ago

Until they are replaced they will not get updates, leaving them open for possible intrusions. Let them have Chinese equipment, starving them of western technology to reverse engineer, steal or sell to competitors isn’t a bad thing either.

monocasa 4y ago
I doubt they have a problem putting their hands on enough IP to reverse engineer, despite the sanctions.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  Probably, but will they be able to reverse engineer and produce successfully? Everything I've read about Russia indicates that, while they have plenty of smart engineers*, the business culture and civic society are so messed up that they have lots of problems actually making things in practice. Too much corruption and people trying to take advantage of each other. * Well, maybe less now, since so many IT workers fled
  - monocasa 4y ago
    But any problems there aren't an issue of sourcing units to reverse engineer. Practically, the sanctions won't function that way.
    - TulliusCicero 4y ago
      Sanctions might make production harder in other ways, limiting access to machines that make machines, for instance.

TulliusCicero 4y ago

Part of the point of sanctions is to reduce Russia's options, it's understood that some products will just get replaced by ones from outside the geopolitical "West". Presumably they weren't already using those other options before because they were worse for some reason or another, and so it still hurts to have to switch. Plus, having fewer options may mean it's harder to negotiate a good deal.

postalrat 4y ago
Whatever the reason was clearly it was a mistake.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  A mistake to...sanction a country for invading their democratic neighbor for no other reason than imperial ambitions? A country that's kidnapping children en masse and flinging missiles at civilian targets while speedrunning their way to maximum war crimes? No, it would've been wrong not to sanction Russia. The West's only mistake has been not sending arms to Ukraine even faster.
  - kfkfofpspwp 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - TulliusCicero 4y ago
      Sad to see the conspiracy theorists here.
  - postalrat 4y ago
    No. It was a mistake for Russia to use technology from the west and not China.
    - TulliusCicero 4y ago
      If they were going to try and conquer their neighbors, then yes. Western countries and businesses were happy to sell to Russia indefinitely before they attacked Ukraine.

josephcsible 4y ago

It's obviously bad when Western countries use Huawei products, but I don't immediately see why it's bad when Russia does.