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Are you not connecting the dots here at all? You think SF would have headed in this direction if it wasn't heavily gentrified by enormous SF salaries and subseq

Are you not connecting the dots here at all? You think SF would have headed in this direction if it wasn't heavily gentrified by enormous SF salaries and subsequent nimbyism? It's the same gentrification -> disparity -> flight -> neglect cycle that's happened to lesser degrees elsewhere. This is unique only in its severity.

nashashmi 4y ago
The government gets happy when rich people move in. The people are happy when rich people move out. We seriously don't need rich people near us. They have too many whines and gripes and are too resourceful to not stay. I say that as a (mildly) Rich person. But when a native sees the town go down, the native doesn't just leave. They still stay.
colpabar 4y ago
I think the point was that SF is the way it is because of the people who live in SF, which includes the people making those enormous salaries.
keneda7 4y ago
I think you may be the one missing the dots. The comment you responded to is pointing out that cycle you list (gentrification -> disparity -> flight -> neglect) is a direct result of the residents actions. They are the ones that elect the politicians and vote on propositions. The residents made a choice to go the route they did. What you see is a direct result of the residents' choices. I live within a couple hours of SF and I got to say I 100% agree with the person you responded too. The residents of SF caused the mess they are in.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  I think it's an oversimplification and ignores the fact that a large number of renters in SF were displaced all along the way. The existing old residents (50+) were already homeowners before the SV wave, and the new homeowners (who are younger and richer) followed the same bad habits of the older generation (albeit, for some different reasons). The controlling political power in SF are homeowners and both new and old have come together to try to keep more people out, which has subsequently caused a bigger problem than what they originally feared. SF is extremely liberal in some senses, but when it comes to housing they're extremely conservative. It's basically the worst combination you can make in the US right now.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    Who are the people who were displaced, and where did they go? This is all very handwavy. Why do you believe this narrative without concrete facts?
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=A_Decade_of_Displacement https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=A_Decade_of_Displace... I left San Francisco in the early 00s... this was well underway by then, and the most recent boom was the nail in the coffin.
      - twblalock 4y ago
        That link doesn't really have any data and it's not from a credible source. It's also an 19-year-old article. An entire generation of San Franciscans have been born and become adults since that article was published. Even if you accept the premise that there was significant displacement in San Francisco in 2004 that doesn't say anything about whether there is today. I do not believe there is a large amount of displacement happening in San Francisco today because I have not yet seen any evidence.
        keneda7 4y ago
        Not the original poster but here is an article on SFs population https://sfstandard.com/research-data/san-francisco-bay-area-california-population-decline-census-pandemic-covid/ https://sfstandard.com/research-data/san-francisco-bay-area-... From 2020-2022 SF (city) -65,522 SF Bay Area -249,389 Its also worth noting the SF (city) decrease was -7.5% or number 1 amongst all US counties with more than 100k residents. Pretty hard to argue there is no displacement happening when it leads the country.
        twblalock 4y ago
        People leaving is not the same as displacement. Many people chose to leave during the pandemic for a variety of reasons, including tech workers moving away to work remotely. After all, why stay in a city when everything is closed when you can get the same experience cheaper somewhere else? Any time window that includes 2020 is going to include very strong pandemic-related effects.
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nashashmi 4y ago

The government gets happy when rich people move in. The people are happy when rich people move out. We seriously don't need rich people near us. They have too many whines and gripes and are too resourceful to not stay. I say that as a (mildly) Rich person. But when a native sees the town go down, the native doesn't just leave. They still stay.

colpabar 4y ago

I think the point was that SF is the way it is because of the people who live in SF, which includes the people making those enormous salaries.

keneda7 4y ago

I think you may be the one missing the dots. The comment you responded to is pointing out that cycle you list (gentrification -> disparity -> flight -> neglect) is a direct result of the residents actions. They are the ones that elect the politicians and vote on propositions. The residents made a choice to go the route they did. What you see is a direct result of the residents' choices. I live within a couple hours of SF and I got to say I 100% agree with the person you responded too. The residents of SF caused the mess they are in.

micromacrofoot 4y ago
I think it's an oversimplification and ignores the fact that a large number of renters in SF were displaced all along the way. The existing old residents (50+) were already homeowners before the SV wave, and the new homeowners (who are younger and richer) followed the same bad habits of the older generation (albeit, for some different reasons). The controlling political power in SF are homeowners and both new and old have come together to try to keep more people out, which has subsequently caused a bigger problem than what they originally feared. SF is extremely liberal in some senses, but when it comes to housing they're extremely conservative. It's basically the worst combination you can make in the US right now.
- twblalock 4y ago
  Who are the people who were displaced, and where did they go? This is all very handwavy. Why do you believe this narrative without concrete facts?
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=A_Decade_of_Displacement https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=A_Decade_of_Displace... I left San Francisco in the early 00s... this was well underway by then, and the most recent boom was the nail in the coffin.
    - twblalock 4y ago
      That link doesn't really have any data and it's not from a credible source. It's also an 19-year-old article. An entire generation of San Franciscans have been born and become adults since that article was published. Even if you accept the premise that there was significant displacement in San Francisco in 2004 that doesn't say anything about whether there is today. I do not believe there is a large amount of displacement happening in San Francisco today because I have not yet seen any evidence.
      - keneda7 4y ago
        Not the original poster but here is an article on SFs population https://sfstandard.com/research-data/san-francisco-bay-area-california-population-decline-census-pandemic-covid/ https://sfstandard.com/research-data/san-francisco-bay-area-... From 2020-2022 SF (city) -65,522 SF Bay Area -249,389 Its also worth noting the SF (city) decrease was -7.5% or number 1 amongst all US counties with more than 100k residents. Pretty hard to argue there is no displacement happening when it leads the country.
        twblalock 4y ago
        People leaving is not the same as displacement. Many people chose to leave during the pandemic for a variety of reasons, including tech workers moving away to work remotely. After all, why stay in a city when everything is closed when you can get the same experience cheaper somewhere else? Any time window that includes 2020 is going to include very strong pandemic-related effects.

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