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Unfortunately so, but by comparison to China it has a very long way to go.

by augment001 4y ago

aarreedd 4y ago
This comment was marked as "dead" for couple minutes. Visible again now. I was about to ask why.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  [flagged]
- akiselev 4y ago
  Likely registered via VPN or Tor.
drekk 4y ago
The US imprisons more of its own citizens per capita and in absolute terms than an "authoritarian" nation-state 4x its population. Remind us the last time China invaded a country as "liberators"? Seeing Americans of all people sit on a high horse is unreal. Like every yank forgot about "shock and awe" or "make their economy scream" It would be great to see westerners measure their own societies by the same yardstick. Mainly because as citizens ostensibly living in a democracy (representative republic, whatever) they are complicit and responsible for the choices of their elected bodies. We're not even a few years removed from protestors against police brutality in the US being whisked away in unmarked vans by people not in uniform. It's a race to the bottom and the US is already there, but nobody seems to care as long as they can pat themselves on the back for not being Russia/China.
- ren_engineer 4y ago
  >Remind us the last time China invaded a country as "liberators" Tibet, Korea, Vietnam, Hong Kong? And constantly abusing other nations territorial waters for fishing and general intimidation
- verdverm 4y ago
  In the US, the people can force change through protests and elections. What options do the Uyghurs or Chinese people have?
  - vkou 4y ago
    Do you want a real answer to this, or one that self-congratulates us, by playing to our biases and cultural myths, and generally poor understanding of how societies work? The same options that any people have. Soft power. Every government, be it formally representative or not, multi-party or dual-party, or single-party is ultimately only able to govern with the consent of the governed. There are always levers for people to push, and they do, and sometimes government responds and sometimes it does not, and this happens in every country. China has in most ways a worse system for responding to these demands than a system of fair elections, but it does have a system. Its leaders steer public opinion, but have to, in turn, also be steered by it - because their mandate doesn't come from a 4-year election (where they can do whatever the hell they want in the intervening years), it comes from a fear that unpopular dictators end up swinging from lamp posts (while unpopular elected representatives end up, at worst, in retirement). And even a system of fair elections will not protect a repressed minority that everyone wants to crap on. African or native Americans can protest and vote[1] all they want, but if the political zeitgeist sees them as a second-class minority, elections and getting tear-gassed and shot in the face with rubber-coated bullets isn't something that's going to bring about meaningful change. Meaningful change will only happen when they convince the people who hold political capital that they need to be treated like human beings. That doesn't happen at the polls, that happens through culture. There's a reason why the American right has declared a war against 'wokeness', and 'crt', and is trying to convince anyone that will listen that it is actually the underdog, the victim of unparalleled historic repression. It's not afraid of losing the culture war at the polls[2], it's afraid of losing the culture war in people's minds. The loss at the polls comes after. [1] Well, at least, in states that don't actively try to suppress and disenfranchise them. [2] Well, it is, hence gerrymandering, voter suppression, and all the rest.
    - verdverm 4y ago
      There is a lot of bias and emotion to unpack from your comment. It's not like one side is more manipulative than the other in the US, both are equally guilty of this, it's part of politics in a democracy, especially given the hyper-media. The "wokeness" movement went to far and we as a country are now self correcting, not the first time it happened, last time it was called PC for short. And it's not just a "right" side issue, many of us left leaning also feel it went too far, to the point that the DEI initiatives violate out equality rules by encouraging preference for some groups over others. It's a fallacy to think your team is right and has all the correct answers.
- SllX 4y ago
  > We're not even a few years removed from protestors against police brutality in the US being whisked away in unmarked vans by people not in uniform. Maybe you don’t know this so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but those were Federal law enforcement—who don’t tend to drive around in patrol-cop livery—detaining and arresting people suspected of setting a courthouse on fire. You can peacefully protest outside of a courthouse, or you can riot, but if you riot then yes, you should be detained, arrested, charged and prosecuted for your offenses. That same courthouse has been trespassed, vandalized, barricaded and been set on fire multiple times between 2020 and 2021.
- augment001 4y ago
  > The US imprisons more of its own citizens per capita and in absolute terms than an "authoritarian" nation-state 4x its population. This is often raised as some kind of trump card, but it of course completely ignores the Chinese system of executions, and the ability of the Chinese state to sentence someone to a lifetime of poverty without even a trial. If you want to claim that the US criminal justice system has problems compared to the richer parts of Europe, you'd be right, but it's laughable to make this claim with regards to China.
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  What country do you reside in?

Unfortunately so, but by comparison to China it has a very long way to go.

aarreedd 4y ago

This comment was marked as "dead" for couple minutes. Visible again now. I was about to ask why.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
[flagged]
akiselev 4y ago
Likely registered via VPN or Tor.

drekk 4y ago

The US imprisons more of its own citizens per capita and in absolute terms than an "authoritarian" nation-state 4x its population. Remind us the last time China invaded a country as "liberators"? Seeing Americans of all people sit on a high horse is unreal. Like every yank forgot about "shock and awe" or "make their economy scream" It would be great to see westerners measure their own societies by the same yardstick. Mainly because as citizens ostensibly living in a democracy (representative republic, whatever) they are complicit and responsible for the choices of their elected bodies. We're not even a few years removed from protestors against police brutality in the US being whisked away in unmarked vans by people not in uniform. It's a race to the bottom and the US is already there, but nobody seems to care as long as they can pat themselves on the back for not being Russia/China.

ren_engineer 4y ago
>Remind us the last time China invaded a country as "liberators" Tibet, Korea, Vietnam, Hong Kong? And constantly abusing other nations territorial waters for fishing and general intimidation
verdverm 4y ago
In the US, the people can force change through protests and elections. What options do the Uyghurs or Chinese people have?
- vkou 4y ago
  Do you want a real answer to this, or one that self-congratulates us, by playing to our biases and cultural myths, and generally poor understanding of how societies work? The same options that any people have. Soft power. Every government, be it formally representative or not, multi-party or dual-party, or single-party is ultimately only able to govern with the consent of the governed. There are always levers for people to push, and they do, and sometimes government responds and sometimes it does not, and this happens in every country. China has in most ways a worse system for responding to these demands than a system of fair elections, but it does have a system. Its leaders steer public opinion, but have to, in turn, also be steered by it - because their mandate doesn't come from a 4-year election (where they can do whatever the hell they want in the intervening years), it comes from a fear that unpopular dictators end up swinging from lamp posts (while unpopular elected representatives end up, at worst, in retirement). And even a system of fair elections will not protect a repressed minority that everyone wants to crap on. African or native Americans can protest and vote[1] all they want, but if the political zeitgeist sees them as a second-class minority, elections and getting tear-gassed and shot in the face with rubber-coated bullets isn't something that's going to bring about meaningful change. Meaningful change will only happen when they convince the people who hold political capital that they need to be treated like human beings. That doesn't happen at the polls, that happens through culture. There's a reason why the American right has declared a war against 'wokeness', and 'crt', and is trying to convince anyone that will listen that it is actually the underdog, the victim of unparalleled historic repression. It's not afraid of losing the culture war at the polls[2], it's afraid of losing the culture war in people's minds. The loss at the polls comes after. [1] Well, at least, in states that don't actively try to suppress and disenfranchise them. [2] Well, it is, hence gerrymandering, voter suppression, and all the rest.
  - verdverm 4y ago
    There is a lot of bias and emotion to unpack from your comment. It's not like one side is more manipulative than the other in the US, both are equally guilty of this, it's part of politics in a democracy, especially given the hyper-media. The "wokeness" movement went to far and we as a country are now self correcting, not the first time it happened, last time it was called PC for short. And it's not just a "right" side issue, many of us left leaning also feel it went too far, to the point that the DEI initiatives violate out equality rules by encouraging preference for some groups over others. It's a fallacy to think your team is right and has all the correct answers.
SllX 4y ago
> We're not even a few years removed from protestors against police brutality in the US being whisked away in unmarked vans by people not in uniform. Maybe you don’t know this so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but those were Federal law enforcement—who don’t tend to drive around in patrol-cop livery—detaining and arresting people suspected of setting a courthouse on fire. You can peacefully protest outside of a courthouse, or you can riot, but if you riot then yes, you should be detained, arrested, charged and prosecuted for your offenses. That same courthouse has been trespassed, vandalized, barricaded and been set on fire multiple times between 2020 and 2021.
augment001 4y ago
> The US imprisons more of its own citizens per capita and in absolute terms than an "authoritarian" nation-state 4x its population. This is often raised as some kind of trump card, but it of course completely ignores the Chinese system of executions, and the ability of the Chinese state to sentence someone to a lifetime of poverty without even a trial. If you want to claim that the US criminal justice system has problems compared to the richer parts of Europe, you'd be right, but it's laughable to make this claim with regards to China.
throwaway6734 4y ago
What country do you reside in?