5 ms·

>> Houses are quite cheap & I was able to buy my house with straight cash, but ironically that cash was earned in SF! So… you came to the MidWest just to contr

by s5300 4y ago

>> Houses are quite cheap & I was able to buy my house with straight cash, but ironically that cash was earned in SF! So… you came to the MidWest just to contribute here to the very problem you were trying to escape This is going to end well for society. Remind me in 20 years.

throwaway049 4y ago
The problem they escaped was high crime rates. Do you think they came to the Midwest to commit crime?
- s5300 4y ago
  No, they’re coming & heavily disrupting the local economy which will lead to the current population unable to afford their lives after some time, which will lead to crime. Do you disagree? Call me crazy, but perhaps if those in SF could afford a home/ to live/ the basic necessities of a U.S. citizen, they wouldn’t be out on the streets being low lifes. Not all of them, some people are truly irredeemable - but truly irredeemable people are typically doing much harder crimes than property theft & petty break-ins.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    So you are against migration?
    - anigbrowl 4y ago
      I think the gp is referring to coming in and buying a house for cash, something which is likely unaffordable for people who grew up in that community (because op says that pay scales are about 1/4 of what they are in tech metros).
      - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
        Yes, so against migration. Migration always introduces these factors.
        anigbrowl 4y ago
        No, not necessarily.
        cscurmudgeon 4y ago
        Even poor migrants increase demand for housing unless they somehow can live in the meta verse or carry their own housing like a snail.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - notch898a 4y ago
    Wow, you sound like the people in my midwest hometown who freaked out when the Punjabis came in and bought all our gas stations. When you look at the desperate parts of the midwest, of the ones that weren't always that way, you'll find most of the worst of the ones became that way after all the skilled / rich people left coupled with other capital flight. Not the other way around.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - alchemist1e9 4y ago
    I never understand these types of comments, appeals to empathy over individual rationalism. How do people not understand at this point that societies are shaped by individuals making rational selfish choices in their own interests within a market system.
- deanCommie 4y ago
  Do you think SF had a high crime rate before the tech industry crated intense wealth inequality and a homelessness crisis?
  - twblalock 4y ago
    I know for sure it did. SF was famous for it for decades. It's even worse now.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  I assume the comment you replied to meant the policies that led to the high crime rate. Which, I know many people who fear people leaving big cities to keep voting for the policies that lead to why they left the city in the first place.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Cities crime rates have little to do with their local politics. Giuliani for example got a great deal of praise for lowering crime in NYC but wildly different approaches also seemed to “work” in other cities. Look at a graph of murder rates for LA vs NYC and their surprisingly similar even with very different politics. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/18/us/chicago-murder-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/18/us/chicago-mu... Chicago, NYC, LA, and many other US cities all had similar trends over similar time periods which line up with national trends. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murder-homicide-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murd...
    - Yhippa 4y ago
      Aren’t the politics very similar?
      - Retric 4y ago
        NYC had “tough on crime” republican governor’s for about half of that time period. Try and locate their policies on the graph before looking up the details. “Broken Windows” policing was a radically different paradigm that initially got a great deal of praise because it seemed to be working.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rcpt 4y ago
The Midwest famously has no empty space
- s5300 4y ago
  Empty space isn’t livable homes & other buildings communities need to flourish & history has shown the free market won’t not greatly abuse the local population if they ever do decide to come in and build any. In other words, the entire point of my comment. Thank you for your assistance.
  - def_true_false 4y ago
    I don't get takes like this. What are you even suggesting? More friction on moving from one place to another? Most rural US problems seem to come from unwillingness to build higher density. Europe has plenty of 5k-20k towns with relatively dense centers that have all the basic services. At the upper end of that range you can even get things like hospitals. And that's in a country with basically no property taxes.
dang 4y ago
Personal attacks and flamewar are not allowed here. We ban accounts that post like that, so please don't. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

by s5300 4y ago

throwaway049 4y ago

The problem they escaped was high crime rates. Do you think they came to the Midwest to commit crime?

s5300 4y ago
No, they’re coming & heavily disrupting the local economy which will lead to the current population unable to afford their lives after some time, which will lead to crime. Do you disagree? Call me crazy, but perhaps if those in SF could afford a home/ to live/ the basic necessities of a U.S. citizen, they wouldn’t be out on the streets being low lifes. Not all of them, some people are truly irredeemable - but truly irredeemable people are typically doing much harder crimes than property theft & petty break-ins.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  So you are against migration?
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    I think the gp is referring to coming in and buying a house for cash, something which is likely unaffordable for people who grew up in that community (because op says that pay scales are about 1/4 of what they are in tech metros).
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      Yes, so against migration. Migration always introduces these factors.
      - anigbrowl 4y ago
        No, not necessarily.
        cscurmudgeon 4y ago
        Even poor migrants increase demand for housing unless they somehow can live in the meta verse or carry their own housing like a snail.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- notch898a 4y ago
  Wow, you sound like the people in my midwest hometown who freaked out when the Punjabis came in and bought all our gas stations. When you look at the desperate parts of the midwest, of the ones that weren't always that way, you'll find most of the worst of the ones became that way after all the skilled / rich people left coupled with other capital flight. Not the other way around.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- alchemist1e9 4y ago
  I never understand these types of comments, appeals to empathy over individual rationalism. How do people not understand at this point that societies are shaped by individuals making rational selfish choices in their own interests within a market system.
deanCommie 4y ago
Do you think SF had a high crime rate before the tech industry crated intense wealth inequality and a homelessness crisis?
- twblalock 4y ago
  I know for sure it did. SF was famous for it for decades. It's even worse now.
Akronymus 4y ago
I assume the comment you replied to meant the policies that led to the high crime rate. Which, I know many people who fear people leaving big cities to keep voting for the policies that lead to why they left the city in the first place.
- Retric 4y ago
  Cities crime rates have little to do with their local politics. Giuliani for example got a great deal of praise for lowering crime in NYC but wildly different approaches also seemed to “work” in other cities. Look at a graph of murder rates for LA vs NYC and their surprisingly similar even with very different politics. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/18/us/chicago-murder-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/18/us/chicago-mu... Chicago, NYC, LA, and many other US cities all had similar trends over similar time periods which line up with national trends. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murder-homicide-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murd...
  - Yhippa 4y ago
    Aren’t the politics very similar?
    - Retric 4y ago
      NYC had “tough on crime” republican governor’s for about half of that time period. Try and locate their policies on the graph before looking up the details. “Broken Windows” policing was a radically different paradigm that initially got a great deal of praise because it seemed to be working.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rcpt 4y ago

The Midwest famously has no empty space

s5300 4y ago
Empty space isn’t livable homes & other buildings communities need to flourish & history has shown the free market won’t not greatly abuse the local population if they ever do decide to come in and build any. In other words, the entire point of my comment. Thank you for your assistance.
- def_true_false 4y ago
  I don't get takes like this. What are you even suggesting? More friction on moving from one place to another? Most rural US problems seem to come from unwillingness to build higher density. Europe has plenty of 5k-20k towns with relatively dense centers that have all the basic services. At the upper end of that range you can even get things like hospitals. And that's in a country with basically no property taxes.

dang 4y ago

Personal attacks and flamewar are not allowed here. We ban accounts that post like that, so please don't. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.