5 ms·

I couldn't get through that wall of incoherent text. But from what I read, he's 100% wrong...maybe the story gets really weird though...however.. Traveling to

by latch 15y ago

I couldn't get through that wall of incoherent text. But from what I read, he's 100% wrong...maybe the story gets really weird though...however.. Traveling to a country which you are not a citizen of is not a right, it's a privilege. There are places where you need to apply weeks (or months) in advanced just to visit. Every country has different types of visas, and each visa has restrictions on what sort of activity you can and cannot engage in. If you are unprepared, or worse, you get caught breaking these laws, whatever happens is your own fault. Don't like the system? Don't like how a particular country enforces its laws or what the punishment can be? Don't travel.

adamrmcd 15y ago
"Traveling to a country which you are not a citizen of is not a right, it's a privilege." I agree. I worked for 8 years for a Canadian company, during that time travelled up to 4 times a year for our US clients. Often having to bring ample documentation to prove that: * I work for a Canadian company, and am paid by the Canadian company. (See letter from my employer, on my company's letterhead.) * The American client I'm visiting is a client of my Canadian company. (See Statement of Work, license agreement, copy of purchase order. Note the SOW specifically has a provision saying "onsite travel required".) * The American client invited me into the US for the installation/support of our product. (See letter of invite, signed by American client on their letterhead.) And so on. Regardless of bringing this documentation, I found that the US boarder guards often did not even request it. But if they did, and if I didn't have it, this business trip would be fscked. Anyway, I'm going to try inserting <p> tags every few sentences to see if I can make sense of his rant :)
- josscrowcroft 15y ago
  "I'm going to try inserting <p> tags every few sentences to see if I can make sense of his rant" - super tempted to make a bookmarklet for that later on.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
thomasgerbe 15y ago
Yeah, I'd like to have sympathy for the OP because the USCBP and DHS can be annoying to deal with but you have to know what to say before going in there. He brought it upon himself. You can't just go unprepared expecting them to help you out.
- pferde 15y ago
  Yes, he himself admitted that in his post. He's not asking for sympathy.
smsm42 15y ago
This is completely true. If somebody's house stinks and is ugly, it's totally within his right to say to everybody: "don't like the stink? Don't come to my house!". However, the house doesn't stop to stink because of that :) I think US immigration policies could use a lot of improvement (using more polite expression here) and their implementation, including proneness of some personnel to power trips, could use a lot of improvement too. I myself crossed US border many times (not a citizen) and never had a bad experience, but I have read enough horror stories to conclude it happens much more often than it should have. And yes, nobody forces anybody to come to the US, and yes, it's totally within rights of the US to deny entry to any non-citizen and be as rude as they want while doing it. But that does not negate the facts expressed above, and I think US would significantly benefit if they fixed it. Saying "don't like our border guards - stay the hell out" won't benefit anybody.
- krschultz 15y ago
  Well, technically it benefits the citizens of the US if it prevents terrorists from coming in. Recall that the 9/11 terrorists came via the US/Canadian border. The first goal of the border agents is to prevent that from happening again. The 2nd goal is smooth service for all the non-terrorists. Unfortunately this is the world we live in.
  - huggyface 15y ago
    Recall that the 9/11 terrorists came via the US/Canadian border. Not one of the 9/11 terrorists entered the US from Canada, and it is a startling indictment that there are people still so incredibly ignorant to make this claim. Further the US has one of the most porous borders on the planet, with some 12 million+ illegals within its confines right now. They didn't get there from Canada -- they flew directly in from overseas, or walked across the land border from Mexico.
    - krschultz 15y ago
      Excuse me, it was Ahmed Ressam. So just a terrorist, not a 9/11 terrorist. I guess that completely negates my point right?
Mikushi 15y ago
This is why i never go through the US anymore, nor do i plan to ever go there for vacation (or work). US immigration law is outright retarded for a developed country, i don't understand why the US doesn't follow the European model, we are all developed countries, let the citizens travel and work where they want to. I just started working in the UK, i'm French, it took me exactly 3 days from getting confirmation to starting in the company. No visa, no questions asked at the border, no trouble anywhere. This is how it should be.
becasse 15y ago
> Traveling to a country which you are not a citizen of is not a right, it's a privilege. Sort of. But we are all citizens of the world. States are just arbitrary things made by ... historical reasons, I dunno why. This reason is the same reason the customs guards use to excuse their crappy behaviour to other people. No-one deserves to be treated like that. Does President Obama get that sort of treatment when he goes through the U.S. / Canadian border? > Don't like the system? Don't like how a particular country enforces its laws or what the punishment can be? >Don't travel. I would have said, "Complain." Because the more people in a position of power act like that, and people don't complain, the more it gets accepted as normal. I find that often you get pestered by people in museums, saying, "Don't point!" and whatnot. The last time we went, my daughter got told off for touching the plastic sign next to a painting. It didn't used to be like that, the museums have got more ... well, fascist. Some of them now have airport-like security with X-ray machines (e.g. Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam).But people put up with that crap, and they've got used to it. 50 years ago, people would have thought, "What the fuck?!" In the 70s (I think) Jean Tinguely made machine-like sculptures that people were allowed to touch and use. Now those sculptures are worth millions, so they don't even turn them on. But even new works by unknown artists nowadays, they would never let you touch the art works. It's interesting to compare it to a restaurant. Because in a restaurant you pay afterwards. So if the waiter starts being dickish, and you complain, and ... he carries on, nothing changes, well you can just stand up and go! And not pay! But the fact is that the restaurant wants their money first. So usually they are much nicer than customs guards or museum attendants. (I live in Europe, but) why don't you U.S. / Canadian people do the following: Give a tip to the guard when you next pass through customs, but only if they are reasonable, do their job properly, and they aren't rude. You like tipping anyway! Make it a new American institution, get all your friends to do it. Eventually, the customs guards will learn to expect their tip, and will be nice to you.

by latch 15y ago

adamrmcd 15y ago

"Traveling to a country which you are not a citizen of is not a right, it's a privilege." I agree. I worked for 8 years for a Canadian company, during that time travelled up to 4 times a year for our US clients. Often having to bring ample documentation to prove that: * I work for a Canadian company, and am paid by the Canadian company. (See letter from my employer, on my company's letterhead.) * The American client I'm visiting is a client of my Canadian company. (See Statement of Work, license agreement, copy of purchase order. Note the SOW specifically has a provision saying "onsite travel required".) * The American client invited me into the US for the installation/support of our product. (See letter of invite, signed by American client on their letterhead.) And so on. Regardless of bringing this documentation, I found that the US boarder guards often did not even request it. But if they did, and if I didn't have it, this business trip would be fscked. Anyway, I'm going to try inserting <p> tags every few sentences to see if I can make sense of his rant :)

josscrowcroft 15y ago
"I'm going to try inserting <p> tags every few sentences to see if I can make sense of his rant" - super tempted to make a bookmarklet for that later on.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

thomasgerbe 15y ago

Yeah, I'd like to have sympathy for the OP because the USCBP and DHS can be annoying to deal with but you have to know what to say before going in there. He brought it upon himself. You can't just go unprepared expecting them to help you out.

pferde 15y ago
Yes, he himself admitted that in his post. He's not asking for sympathy.

smsm42 15y ago

This is completely true. If somebody's house stinks and is ugly, it's totally within his right to say to everybody: "don't like the stink? Don't come to my house!". However, the house doesn't stop to stink because of that :) I think US immigration policies could use a lot of improvement (using more polite expression here) and their implementation, including proneness of some personnel to power trips, could use a lot of improvement too. I myself crossed US border many times (not a citizen) and never had a bad experience, but I have read enough horror stories to conclude it happens much more often than it should have. And yes, nobody forces anybody to come to the US, and yes, it's totally within rights of the US to deny entry to any non-citizen and be as rude as they want while doing it. But that does not negate the facts expressed above, and I think US would significantly benefit if they fixed it. Saying "don't like our border guards - stay the hell out" won't benefit anybody.

krschultz 15y ago
Well, technically it benefits the citizens of the US if it prevents terrorists from coming in. Recall that the 9/11 terrorists came via the US/Canadian border. The first goal of the border agents is to prevent that from happening again. The 2nd goal is smooth service for all the non-terrorists. Unfortunately this is the world we live in.
- huggyface 15y ago
  Recall that the 9/11 terrorists came via the US/Canadian border. Not one of the 9/11 terrorists entered the US from Canada, and it is a startling indictment that there are people still so incredibly ignorant to make this claim. Further the US has one of the most porous borders on the planet, with some 12 million+ illegals within its confines right now. They didn't get there from Canada -- they flew directly in from overseas, or walked across the land border from Mexico.
  - krschultz 15y ago
    Excuse me, it was Ahmed Ressam. So just a terrorist, not a 9/11 terrorist. I guess that completely negates my point right?

Mikushi 15y ago

This is why i never go through the US anymore, nor do i plan to ever go there for vacation (or work). US immigration law is outright retarded for a developed country, i don't understand why the US doesn't follow the European model, we are all developed countries, let the citizens travel and work where they want to. I just started working in the UK, i'm French, it took me exactly 3 days from getting confirmation to starting in the company. No visa, no questions asked at the border, no trouble anywhere. This is how it should be.

becasse 15y ago

> Traveling to a country which you are not a citizen of is not a right, it's a privilege. Sort of. But we are all citizens of the world. States are just arbitrary things made by ... historical reasons, I dunno why. This reason is the same reason the customs guards use to excuse their crappy behaviour to other people. No-one deserves to be treated like that. Does President Obama get that sort of treatment when he goes through the U.S. / Canadian border? > Don't like the system? Don't like how a particular country enforces its laws or what the punishment can be? >Don't travel. I would have said, "Complain." Because the more people in a position of power act like that, and people don't complain, the more it gets accepted as normal. I find that often you get pestered by people in museums, saying, "Don't point!" and whatnot. The last time we went, my daughter got told off for touching the plastic sign next to a painting. It didn't used to be like that, the museums have got more ... well, fascist. Some of them now have airport-like security with X-ray machines (e.g. Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam).But people put up with that crap, and they've got used to it. 50 years ago, people would have thought, "What the fuck?!" In the 70s (I think) Jean Tinguely made machine-like sculptures that people were allowed to touch and use. Now those sculptures are worth millions, so they don't even turn them on. But even new works by unknown artists nowadays, they would never let you touch the art works. It's interesting to compare it to a restaurant. Because in a restaurant you pay afterwards. So if the waiter starts being dickish, and you complain, and ... he carries on, nothing changes, well you can just stand up and go! And not pay! But the fact is that the restaurant wants their money first. So usually they are much nicer than customs guards or museum attendants. (I live in Europe, but) why don't you U.S. / Canadian people do the following: Give a tip to the guard when you next pass through customs, but only if they are reasonable, do their job properly, and they aren't rude. You like tipping anyway! Make it a new American institution, get all your friends to do it. Eventually, the customs guards will learn to expect their tip, and will be nice to you.