4 ms·

All this is seems so alien, compared to european cities, even the acceptance standards to which citizens have been negotiated down too. https://www.numbeo.com/c

All this is seems so alien, compared to european cities, even the acceptance standards to which citizens have been negotiated down too. https://www.numbeo.com/crime/in/Munich https://www.numbeo.com/crime/in/Munich

nemo44x 4y ago
[flagged]
- joseph_grobbles 4y ago
  [dead]
- tcptomato 4y ago
  Where exactly are these mythical European "no-go zones"?
  - callalex 4y ago
    On Fox News.
    - codyb 4y ago
      Hmm, I'm pretty liberal but there's definitely some pretty large "slum" or "ghetto" areas outside certain major cities in Europe. Generally they're predominately unassimilated refugees as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be much attempt at integration really. I am unsure about whether the police will go to them or whether or not they are more or less violent than American cities. There are certain things the US does well, I think assimilation of immigrants is a really strong point for our culture here. Maybe it's because our culture has never really been much more than a gigantic mixing pot and is a lot younger. And maybe it's cause the population is so much larger and discordant than any single European nation.
      - nemo44x 4y ago
        [flagged]
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    "No-go zones" are areas where the police are reluctant to enter because of the danger. "Wait!" you say. "Didn't the news tell me that 'no-go zones' are a myth?" Ask Reuters <https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/french-police-angry-at-no-go-zones-after-petrol-bomb-attack-idUSKCN12A1WS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/fr...> about those supposedly nonexistent no-go zones. Or The Independent <http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-...>: >Brice De Ruyver, who spent eight years as security adviser to then-Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, said Molenbeek suffers from a cocktail of problems. “Youths are poorly educated, attracted by petty crime, have run-ins with police, and then there is a vicious circle, which leads to recruitment by radical groups,” he said, adding that the problems are now so serious, that it is hard to find police willing to bother tackling them. >“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.” The Los Angeles Times disagreed with the harsh description <http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-paris-attack-molenbeek-20151115-story.html http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-paris-attack-molen...> of Molenbeek, but the funny thing is it did so only by favorably compararing it with the French banlieus! That well-known right-wing rag The New Republic agreed <https://newrepublic.com/article/120714/charlie-hebdo-attack-challenges-frances-treasured-national-identity https://newrepublic.com/article/120714/charlie-hebdo-attack-...> regarding the banlieus,, as did The New Yorker <http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-other-france http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-other-franc...>. (I highly recommend the last, by the way.) The US has the likes of Detroit, Chicago ("Chiraq"), etc., and we're discussing San Francisco now. In none of those places, however—not during the worst of the "Fort Apache" years in the South Bronx in the 1970s, or South Central during the crack epidemic in the 1980s—did the police refuse to enter them, and thankfully they are all better than they used to be. That doesn't mean that these European neighborhoods are worse than the South Bronx c. 1975, but it does mean that the police in those places have overtly or implicitly made a decision regarding them and their own safety.
- mmmmmbop 4y ago
  Could you please point out to me the no-go zone(s) in Munich? I lived there for almost a decade and never found one of those. Or just any area within Munich where it would be unsafe to walk at night, thanks!
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 4y ago
      Can you please stop posting flamewar comments and breaking the site guidelines? We've had to ask you this more than once before. In fact you're well past the point at which we should probably ban you—see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35090086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35090086 —but I appreciate that you posted good comments about Gravity's Rainbow just the other day. We really need you to stop breaking HN's rules though. You've been doing it a ton.
zukzuk 4y ago
Also, maybe for more direct comparison, Canadian cities. SF has 4X the murder rate of Toronto, for example. (And Toronto has about the same murder rate as London, and less than Amsterdam — I can't find the comparative stat for Munich though)

nemo44x 4y ago

[flagged]

joseph_grobbles 4y ago
[dead]
tcptomato 4y ago
Where exactly are these mythical European "no-go zones"?
- callalex 4y ago
  On Fox News.
  - codyb 4y ago
    Hmm, I'm pretty liberal but there's definitely some pretty large "slum" or "ghetto" areas outside certain major cities in Europe. Generally they're predominately unassimilated refugees as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be much attempt at integration really. I am unsure about whether the police will go to them or whether or not they are more or less violent than American cities. There are certain things the US does well, I think assimilation of immigrants is a really strong point for our culture here. Maybe it's because our culture has never really been much more than a gigantic mixing pot and is a lot younger. And maybe it's cause the population is so much larger and discordant than any single European nation.
    - nemo44x 4y ago
      [flagged]
- TMWNN 4y ago
  "No-go zones" are areas where the police are reluctant to enter because of the danger. "Wait!" you say. "Didn't the news tell me that 'no-go zones' are a myth?" Ask Reuters <https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/french-police-angry-at-no-go-zones-after-petrol-bomb-attack-idUSKCN12A1WS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/fr...> about those supposedly nonexistent no-go zones. Or The Independent <http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-...>: >Brice De Ruyver, who spent eight years as security adviser to then-Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, said Molenbeek suffers from a cocktail of problems. “Youths are poorly educated, attracted by petty crime, have run-ins with police, and then there is a vicious circle, which leads to recruitment by radical groups,” he said, adding that the problems are now so serious, that it is hard to find police willing to bother tackling them. >“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.” The Los Angeles Times disagreed with the harsh description <http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-paris-attack-molenbeek-20151115-story.html http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-paris-attack-molen...> of Molenbeek, but the funny thing is it did so only by favorably compararing it with the French banlieus! That well-known right-wing rag The New Republic agreed <https://newrepublic.com/article/120714/charlie-hebdo-attack-challenges-frances-treasured-national-identity https://newrepublic.com/article/120714/charlie-hebdo-attack-...> regarding the banlieus,, as did The New Yorker <http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-other-france http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-other-franc...>. (I highly recommend the last, by the way.) The US has the likes of Detroit, Chicago ("Chiraq"), etc., and we're discussing San Francisco now. In none of those places, however—not during the worst of the "Fort Apache" years in the South Bronx in the 1970s, or South Central during the crack epidemic in the 1980s—did the police refuse to enter them, and thankfully they are all better than they used to be. That doesn't mean that these European neighborhoods are worse than the South Bronx c. 1975, but it does mean that the police in those places have overtly or implicitly made a decision regarding them and their own safety.
mmmmmbop 4y ago
Could you please point out to me the no-go zone(s) in Munich? I lived there for almost a decade and never found one of those. Or just any area within Munich where it would be unsafe to walk at night, thanks!
- nemo44x 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    Can you please stop posting flamewar comments and breaking the site guidelines? We've had to ask you this more than once before. In fact you're well past the point at which we should probably ban you—see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35090086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35090086 —but I appreciate that you posted good comments about Gravity's Rainbow just the other day. We really need you to stop breaking HN's rules though. You've been doing it a ton.

zukzuk 4y ago

Also, maybe for more direct comparison, Canadian cities. SF has 4X the murder rate of Toronto, for example. (And Toronto has about the same murder rate as London, and less than Amsterdam — I can't find the comparative stat for Munich though)