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San Francisco isn't anywhere close to most dangerous city in the United States. Do you have any data to support your argument that the 'catch and release' polic

by cmh89 4y ago

San Francisco isn't anywhere close to most dangerous city in the United States. Do you have any data to support your argument that the 'catch and release' policy creates substantially more danger than traditional American judicial policies?

miles 4y ago
> San Francisco isn't anywhere close to most dangerous city in the United States. See cheeseblubber's comment[1] which cites[2]: "With a crime rate of 54 per one thousand residents, San Francisco has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 18." It goes on to compare with NY[3]: "The chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime in New York is 1 in 40." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35454781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35454781 [2] https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime#description https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime#des... [3] https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/new-york/crime#description https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/new-york/crime#descript...
- cmh89 4y ago
  Your comparing a safe big city to the safest big city. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I didn't say SF was the safest city in the country.
  - miles 4y ago
    > I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. “San Francisco has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities.”
    - cmh89 4y ago
      The definition of danger is 'able or likely to cause harm or injury.' From Google/Oxford. I said "San Francisco isn't anywhere close to *most dangerous city* in the United States." You conflating property crime with violent crime is disingenuous at best on your part.
      - miles 4y ago
        > You conflating property crime with violent crime is disingenuous at best on your part. No, it's just a definition of "dangerous" much closer to Merriam-Websters' first entry for the word[1]: "involving possible injury, pain, harm, or loss" If you do not consider carjackings, break-ins, burglaries, and the like to be dangerous, we simply have different working definitions, that's all. [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dangerous https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dangerous
        cmh89 4y ago
        Does San Francisco have a lot of carjackings, break-ins, and burglaries? I've never heard of San Francisco having frequent carjackings or break-ins, or even burglaries. It's mostly petty theft like smashing a car window or stealing a bike. You're trying to use the amount of petty theft, which does suck, to pretend that San Francisco is a dangerous city, which its not. If you look at just violent crimes, San Francisco isn't in the conversation.
        miles 4y ago
        > Does San Francisco have a lot of carjackings, break-ins, and burglaries? Vehicle thefts and carjackings spike in major US cities[1]: "The number of carjackings - defined as auto theft or attempted theft by force or threat - rose by 24% in seven cities: Baltimore, Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, Memphis, Norfolk and San Francisco." Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says[2] Perhaps most tellingly[3]: "In September 2022, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that a poll of 1,653 city residents found that over the past five years, 45% of San Francisco residents had been the victim of theft and 24% had been either been threatened with violence or had been the victim of a violent crime.[4]" > If you look at just violent crimes If we are shifting the conversation from "dangerous" to "violent", I would certainly agree with you. My concern is similar to that expressed by huevosabio[5] based on his experience in Mexico: "Every crime that goes unprosecuted is an invitation for a repeat crime. This is as true in Juarez as it is in San Francisco." [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64414985 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64414985 [2] https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/nearly-half-of-san-franciscans-have-been-victims-of-theft-new-poll-says/ https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/nearly-half-of-san-f... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco [4] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sfnext-poll-crime-sfpd-17439346.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sfnext-poll-crime-sfp... [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457841

by cmh89 4y ago

miles 4y ago

> San Francisco isn't anywhere close to most dangerous city in the United States. See cheeseblubber's comment[1] which cites[2]: "With a crime rate of 54 per one thousand residents, San Francisco has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 18." It goes on to compare with NY[3]: "The chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime in New York is 1 in 40." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35454781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35454781 [2] https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime#description https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime#des... [3] https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/new-york/crime#description https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/new-york/crime#descript...

cmh89 4y ago
Your comparing a safe big city to the safest big city. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I didn't say SF was the safest city in the country.
- miles 4y ago
  > I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. “San Francisco has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities.”
  - cmh89 4y ago
    The definition of danger is 'able or likely to cause harm or injury.' From Google/Oxford. I said "San Francisco isn't anywhere close to *most dangerous city* in the United States." You conflating property crime with violent crime is disingenuous at best on your part.
    - miles 4y ago
      > You conflating property crime with violent crime is disingenuous at best on your part. No, it's just a definition of "dangerous" much closer to Merriam-Websters' first entry for the word[1]: "involving possible injury, pain, harm, or loss" If you do not consider carjackings, break-ins, burglaries, and the like to be dangerous, we simply have different working definitions, that's all. [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dangerous https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dangerous
      - cmh89 4y ago
        Does San Francisco have a lot of carjackings, break-ins, and burglaries? I've never heard of San Francisco having frequent carjackings or break-ins, or even burglaries. It's mostly petty theft like smashing a car window or stealing a bike. You're trying to use the amount of petty theft, which does suck, to pretend that San Francisco is a dangerous city, which its not. If you look at just violent crimes, San Francisco isn't in the conversation.
        miles 4y ago
        > Does San Francisco have a lot of carjackings, break-ins, and burglaries? Vehicle thefts and carjackings spike in major US cities[1]: "The number of carjackings - defined as auto theft or attempted theft by force or threat - rose by 24% in seven cities: Baltimore, Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, Memphis, Norfolk and San Francisco." Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says[2] Perhaps most tellingly[3]: "In September 2022, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that a poll of 1,653 city residents found that over the past five years, 45% of San Francisco residents had been the victim of theft and 24% had been either been threatened with violence or had been the victim of a violent crime.[4]" > If you look at just violent crimes If we are shifting the conversation from "dangerous" to "violent", I would certainly agree with you. My concern is similar to that expressed by huevosabio[5] based on his experience in Mexico: "Every crime that goes unprosecuted is an invitation for a repeat crime. This is as true in Juarez as it is in San Francisco." [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64414985 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64414985 [2] https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/nearly-half-of-san-franciscans-have-been-victims-of-theft-new-poll-says/ https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/nearly-half-of-san-f... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco [4] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sfnext-poll-crime-sfpd-17439346.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sfnext-poll-crime-sfp... [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457841