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> russians were silent during Chechnya Let me tell you how it actually was, first-hand - because you clearly got zero idea and seem to propagate the "we've alw
by orbital-decay 4y ago
> russians were silent during Chechnya
Let me tell you how it actually was, first-hand - because you clearly got zero idea and seem to propagate the "we've always been at war with Eastasia" thing. So our family used to live in a small city/town (~10k pop) - everybody knew each other, and all that. A 18yo guy from a nearby house got conscripted and subsequently killed in that war. The next day his mother killed herself. Fast forward to 1996; Yeltsin (the autocrat who started that war) was running for his second term and organized a massive media campaign with rallies in every city and village. There was a pro-Yeltsin rally in our city as well, but the organizers had to literally run for their lives - everybody remembered that case. Two of them were hospitalized and taken into another city because even the medics refused them. Chechen war was everywhere, and Yeltsin had to promise to end it to even be taken seriously. Anybody who says otherwise got either no idea, no memory, or no honesty.
- jevgeni 4y agoCool. So what happened to Grozny? I mean, Jesus Christ, 150-300k people died and you’re telling me that people were pissed for being drafted.
- orbital-decay 4y agoI'm directly addressing the point that people were "silent". No they weren't silent, and framing it as being pissed for being drafted is bizarre to anyone who lived during that time. They were angry at Yeltsin for bringing the war in the first place, to use military force in both 1993 coup and Chechnya. Why the massively unpopular person (with 6%-something support before the campaign) remained in power instead of someone like Nemtsov (funny how you remember his murder but don't seem to remember what role he was in during 90s) is another question, the answer will be far too long.
- jevgeni 4y agoAll irrelevant for the end-result: hundreds of thousands people dead, cities destroyed, warcrimes committed. 3 million "siloviki" in a country of 140 million - with these proportions, it's the 137 mil who are guilty.
- orbital-decay 4y agoHonestly, what I hear is moving the goalposts until "it's irrelevant whether you did anything, if you lost it's your damn fault lmao". Same with Belarus 2020. Well, if I'm hearing it right, then good luck with that brush. It might be understandable, but that doesn't make it excusable.
- jevgeni 4y agoHonestly, this playing the victim is at best getting tiring. You've ignored my comment to hear it as moving the goal posts. Again: only ca. 2% of the population are siloviki, who rely on the rest for support, for food, for logistics, for communication, IT support, etc., etc. If the protests fail, is because most of the 98% don't care, or snitch, or actively oppose the protest. That makes them culpable. A few complaining doesn't absolve the society.
- orbital-decay 4y agoYou, on the other hand, dismissed my comment on how it was, made another unrelated claim, and now hearing that I'm playing the victim. (how on Earth?..) We can run in circles this way if you desire, but I don't want to.
- jevgeni 4y agoIt's only unlrelated if you don't care about the results. Which is the point I am making.
- iavael 4y agoSo you are fine with idea that if Ukraine loses war then it's okay to turn back no it at that very moment, call ukranians aggressors and punish them?
- jevgeni 4y agoI just read your comment and it makes no sense. EDIT: I think I understand now, but the amount of brainworms you have to have to equate a victim with someone silently supporting the aggressor is pretty big. russians are not the victims here.