6 ms·

At that point if you have a recent car you need a steering wheel lock.

by Thaxll 4y ago

gambiting 4y ago
Having owned some expensive cars and spent time with other owners, there are two schools of thoughts to this: 1) add every alarm, immobilizer, hidden kill switch, steering wheel lock, driveway bollard you can possibly afford and keep the keys in a signal blocking pouch at night. OR 2)Make sure the car is as easy to start and drive away as physically possible - don't add anything extra fancy to keep it safe other than what's already there from factory, keep the keys on a shelf right in front of the main door of your property, easily and clearly visible should anyone enter. The reason is simple - for owners of fancy/exotic cars, if someone is coming to steal your car, they will take it. If you make it difficult, if you hide the keys and put locks on the steering wheel, they will come into your house and ask that you unlock it for them. And putting aside the idea of any heroics with self defense, the last thing you want the thieves to do is harm you or your family to take what is essentially just an object. Cars are replacable. Insurance will pay for the loss and therapy for you and your family - but insurance will do nothing about losing your life because you decided to stand up to someone with a weapon coming to take your car. Let them find and take the keys and fuck off as quickly as possible. I was in group 1 when I started, now I'm in group 2 - the risks to me and my family are just not worth it.
- Thaxll 4y ago
  From what I understand they just don't waste time trying to remove a physical lock, it's like bikes, it's a deterent.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Yes, but like I said - if you have a Lamborghini or a Ferrari sitting in your driveway and someone comes to steal it, they didn't just happen to be walking past - they are there to take your car. Either on order, or it's been targeted through long time observation already. If there is a lock on the wheel they will come into your house, put a gun to your head and "ask" for you to take it off. There is no deterrent you can use because they are not there to be deterred - wheel locks work against opportunistic thieves because then yes, like with bikes - a thief will just move on to the next easier target.
    - s1mplicissimus 4y ago
      may i ask in which region of the world you live where people have ferraris in their driveway but it's also dangerous enough for people to invade your home and put a gun to your head to steal it from you?
      - gambiting 4y ago
        Very common(relatively speaking) in the UK if you live in London/Birmingham/Manchester and drive a fancy car. There was a time couple years ago when no insurance agency wanted to insure any Range Rover in London because they were being stolen at such incredible rates. Break-ins specifically to steal car keys and subsequently the car is one of the most common types of burglaries in the UK still.
        cjrp 4y ago
        I'd say relay attacks were more common than break-ins though.
        datpiff 4y ago
        Why? Break-in seems much easier. Plus you get a set of keys in case you need re-start the engine.
        cjrp 4y ago
        You do need the equipment for a relay attack, but then it’s just waving an antenna near the door and seeing if it unlocks. Breaking in is riskier for a burglar.
        Nextgrid 4y ago
        > Breaking in is riskier for a burglar. Not in a jurisdiction where law enforcement doesn't care.
- vidanay 4y ago
  > 2)Make sure the car is as easy to start and drive away as physically possible - don't add anything extra fancy to keep it safe other than what's already there from factory, keep the keys on a shelf right in front of the main door of your property, easily and clearly visible should anyone enter. Back in the early 90's when I first met my not-yet-wife, she drove a rusted out '85 Datsun (not Nissan). There was a rust hole right in the door panel where you could reach your fingers in and manipulate the mechanical locking rod to unlock the door. One time someone "broke in" to her car and rummaged around in all her crap, didn't take anything, and was polite enough to re-lock the door when they were done.
- dagw 4y ago
  if someone is coming to steal your car, they will take it. Not if stealing your neighbours car is easier. Unless you own something very exotic and the thief has essentially been hired to steal your specific car, no one want to steal _your_ car. They want to steal N reasonably nice cars as quickly and safely as possible and get out of there before anybody notices anything.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    >> Unless you own something very exotic and the thief has essentially been hired to steal your specific car, That's the entire point of my post, sorry if it wasn't completely clear. Having been in the community of people who own very expensive/exotic vehicles, these cars almost never get stolen by opportunistic thieves. If someone is coming to steal your ferrari, they are coming to steal your ferrari. They don't care what your neighbour has(they probably know already and they decided to steal yours first).
- markus_zhang 4y ago
  I guess there are a third option: buy low cost cars.
  - toyg 4y ago
    That helps only to a point. There are effectively three types of vehicle theft: to resell the car (whole or in parts), to use it for crime acts (robberies etc), or to joyride it. Category n.2 explicitly targets cheap cars, easy to steal but also easy to go unnoticed on the streets afterwards.
    - aix1 4y ago
      My thoughts: (1) having a cheap car stolen incurs a smaller loss than having an expensive car stolen; and (2) the pool of cheap cars is larger, reducing the probability of a given car getting stolen (unless the "demand", so to speak, is also higher?) Overall, it seems that the expected loss (actual loss times the probability) should be quite a bit lower for cheap cars than for expensive cars. Having said that, if one has enough money to buy an expensive car, they presumably have enough money to insure it from theft, rendering this whole line of argument moot (they just pay higher premia and spread the risk across a population of car owners)...
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  >The reason is simple - for owners of fancy/exotic cars, if someone is coming to steal your car, they will take it. This doesn't seem to be true, given that as soon as it became hard to steal cars the number of car thefts dropped massively.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    I don't see how these two facts are related?
  - toyg 4y ago
    That just means you have fewer actors, but it also means they are more focused and determined, more willing to go the extra mile. In the case of this post, it involved attacking the car twice; in other scenarios, it involves actual home-intruding. Depending on where you live, the chances of this happening might be very low, but there is a chance.
- dwighttk 4y ago
  I’m in group 3... my car is 23yo
- Spivak 4y ago
  #2 is why people in my area generally leave their cars unlocked. If it's locked thieves will break your window or pry your door which is way more expensive than the $10 phone charger they'll get.
- deanc 4y ago
  In my home town (UK) my father leaves his keys by the front door. We've had multiple neighbours with higher-end cars (think Range Rovers and upwards, presumably stolen to order) broken into, and threatened with knives and guns as the thieves couldn't find the keys.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Exactly, I'm in the UK as well and I've heard many of such stories.
  - bsder 4y ago
    Wait, what? Your car thieves are willing to step up from car theft to attempted murder rather than steal a different car? What's the incentive for that?
    - gambiting 4y ago
      It's the other way around - it's not that the incentive is there, it's that there is a lack of disincentive. Thieves know that there is literally no enforcement whatsoever and police is far too overworked to deal with trivial matters like armed robberies. I know someone whose house was broken into while they were inside, the thieves still took the keys and left with the car, the Manchester police didn't even send anyone out to inspect the scene, take fingerprints or anything. They were told to report it with their insurance company and that's it. My sister's house was broken into 3(!!!!!) Times when she lived in Manchester last year, she sent the police CCTV footage of the criminals and everything, they never came out and said thanks for the footage but they are all wearing balaclavas so it doesn't help in any way. If you were a thief why wouldn't you break in if you knew that's the level of enforcement.
      - bsder 4y ago
        Ah. Got it. UK not US. Most car thieves would not dream of upgrading to randomly breaking into a house in the US as there would be a non-trivial probability of meeting a resident with a shotgun.
olyjohn 4y ago
Hate to say it, but thieves know how to bypass those too.

At that point if you have a recent car you need a steering wheel lock.

by Thaxll 4y ago

At that point if you have a recent car you need a steering wheel lock.

Having owned some expensive cars and spent time with other owners, there are two schools of thoughts to this: 1) add every alarm, immobilizer, hidden kill switch, steering wheel lock, driveway bollard you can possibly afford and keep the keys in a signal blocking pouch at night. OR 2)Make sure the car is as easy to start and drive away as physically possible - don't add anything extra fancy to keep it safe other than what's already there from factory, keep the keys on a shelf right in front of the main door of your property, easily and clearly visible should anyone enter. The reason is simple - for owners of fancy/exotic cars, if someone is coming to steal your car, they will take it. If you make it difficult, if you hide the keys and put locks on the steering wheel, they will come into your house and ask that you unlock it for them. And putting aside the idea of any heroics with self defense, the last thing you want the thieves to do is harm you or your family to take what is essentially just an object. Cars are replacable. Insurance will pay for the loss and therapy for you and your family - but insurance will do nothing about losing your life because you decided to stand up to someone with a weapon coming to take your car. Let them find and take the keys and fuck off as quickly as possible. I was in group 1 when I started, now I'm in group 2 - the risks to me and my family are just not worth it.

Thaxll 4y ago
From what I understand they just don't waste time trying to remove a physical lock, it's like bikes, it's a deterent.
- gambiting 4y ago
  Yes, but like I said - if you have a Lamborghini or a Ferrari sitting in your driveway and someone comes to steal it, they didn't just happen to be walking past - they are there to take your car. Either on order, or it's been targeted through long time observation already. If there is a lock on the wheel they will come into your house, put a gun to your head and "ask" for you to take it off. There is no deterrent you can use because they are not there to be deterred - wheel locks work against opportunistic thieves because then yes, like with bikes - a thief will just move on to the next easier target.
  - s1mplicissimus 4y ago
    may i ask in which region of the world you live where people have ferraris in their driveway but it's also dangerous enough for people to invade your home and put a gun to your head to steal it from you?
    - gambiting 4y ago
      Very common(relatively speaking) in the UK if you live in London/Birmingham/Manchester and drive a fancy car. There was a time couple years ago when no insurance agency wanted to insure any Range Rover in London because they were being stolen at such incredible rates. Break-ins specifically to steal car keys and subsequently the car is one of the most common types of burglaries in the UK still.
      - cjrp 4y ago
        I'd say relay attacks were more common than break-ins though.
        datpiff 4y ago
        Why? Break-in seems much easier. Plus you get a set of keys in case you need re-start the engine.
        cjrp 4y ago
        You do need the equipment for a relay attack, but then it’s just waving an antenna near the door and seeing if it unlocks. Breaking in is riskier for a burglar.
        Nextgrid 4y ago
        > Breaking in is riskier for a burglar. Not in a jurisdiction where law enforcement doesn't care.
vidanay 4y ago
> 2)Make sure the car is as easy to start and drive away as physically possible - don't add anything extra fancy to keep it safe other than what's already there from factory, keep the keys on a shelf right in front of the main door of your property, easily and clearly visible should anyone enter. Back in the early 90's when I first met my not-yet-wife, she drove a rusted out '85 Datsun (not Nissan). There was a rust hole right in the door panel where you could reach your fingers in and manipulate the mechanical locking rod to unlock the door. One time someone "broke in" to her car and rummaged around in all her crap, didn't take anything, and was polite enough to re-lock the door when they were done.
dagw 4y ago
if someone is coming to steal your car, they will take it. Not if stealing your neighbours car is easier. Unless you own something very exotic and the thief has essentially been hired to steal your specific car, no one want to steal _your_ car. They want to steal N reasonably nice cars as quickly and safely as possible and get out of there before anybody notices anything.
- gambiting 4y ago
  >> Unless you own something very exotic and the thief has essentially been hired to steal your specific car, That's the entire point of my post, sorry if it wasn't completely clear. Having been in the community of people who own very expensive/exotic vehicles, these cars almost never get stolen by opportunistic thieves. If someone is coming to steal your ferrari, they are coming to steal your ferrari. They don't care what your neighbour has(they probably know already and they decided to steal yours first).
markus_zhang 4y ago
I guess there are a third option: buy low cost cars.
- toyg 4y ago
  That helps only to a point. There are effectively three types of vehicle theft: to resell the car (whole or in parts), to use it for crime acts (robberies etc), or to joyride it. Category n.2 explicitly targets cheap cars, easy to steal but also easy to go unnoticed on the streets afterwards.
  - aix1 4y ago
    My thoughts: (1) having a cheap car stolen incurs a smaller loss than having an expensive car stolen; and (2) the pool of cheap cars is larger, reducing the probability of a given car getting stolen (unless the "demand", so to speak, is also higher?) Overall, it seems that the expected loss (actual loss times the probability) should be quite a bit lower for cheap cars than for expensive cars. Having said that, if one has enough money to buy an expensive car, they presumably have enough money to insure it from theft, rendering this whole line of argument moot (they just pay higher premia and spread the risk across a population of car owners)...
sebzim4500 4y ago
>The reason is simple - for owners of fancy/exotic cars, if someone is coming to steal your car, they will take it. This doesn't seem to be true, given that as soon as it became hard to steal cars the number of car thefts dropped massively.
- gambiting 4y ago
  I don't see how these two facts are related?
- toyg 4y ago
  That just means you have fewer actors, but it also means they are more focused and determined, more willing to go the extra mile. In the case of this post, it involved attacking the car twice; in other scenarios, it involves actual home-intruding. Depending on where you live, the chances of this happening might be very low, but there is a chance.
dwighttk 4y ago
I’m in group 3... my car is 23yo
Spivak 4y ago
#2 is why people in my area generally leave their cars unlocked. If it's locked thieves will break your window or pry your door which is way more expensive than the $10 phone charger they'll get.
deanc 4y ago
In my home town (UK) my father leaves his keys by the front door. We've had multiple neighbours with higher-end cars (think Range Rovers and upwards, presumably stolen to order) broken into, and threatened with knives and guns as the thieves couldn't find the keys.
- gambiting 4y ago
  Exactly, I'm in the UK as well and I've heard many of such stories.
- bsder 4y ago
  Wait, what? Your car thieves are willing to step up from car theft to attempted murder rather than steal a different car? What's the incentive for that?
  - gambiting 4y ago
    It's the other way around - it's not that the incentive is there, it's that there is a lack of disincentive. Thieves know that there is literally no enforcement whatsoever and police is far too overworked to deal with trivial matters like armed robberies. I know someone whose house was broken into while they were inside, the thieves still took the keys and left with the car, the Manchester police didn't even send anyone out to inspect the scene, take fingerprints or anything. They were told to report it with their insurance company and that's it. My sister's house was broken into 3(!!!!!) Times when she lived in Manchester last year, she sent the police CCTV footage of the criminals and everything, they never came out and said thanks for the footage but they are all wearing balaclavas so it doesn't help in any way. If you were a thief why wouldn't you break in if you knew that's the level of enforcement.
    - bsder 4y ago
      Ah. Got it. UK not US. Most car thieves would not dream of upgrading to randomly breaking into a house in the US as there would be a non-trivial probability of meeting a resident with a shotgun.

olyjohn 4y ago

Hate to say it, but thieves know how to bypass those too.