4 ms·

You have the nostalgists on the left who remember Mother Russia as they imagined it. You have some on the right who favor Russia for some mix of liking the trad

by cafard 4y ago

You have the nostalgists on the left who remember Mother Russia as they imagined it. You have some on the right who favor Russia for some mix of liking the traditional values thing that Putin puts out, resenting implications that Trump was in his pocket, disliking the Ukraine for its connection with the first impeachment, and I don't know what all.

petertodd 4y ago
Ironically the false idea that Russia had so much control over US politics is itself pro-Russian propaganda that presents Russia as much more powerful than it actually is. The truth is Russia is a failing country with a crummy military whose main real power stems from being able to threaten the world with nuclear weapons. If not for that, the West probably would have sent troops to Ukraine in 2014 and the Russian invasion would have been quickly defeated.
- danaris 4y ago
  The recent effect Russia had on US politics was an ability to tip a crucial few (relatively speaking) on the fence to either support Trump or sit out entirely in 2016. The existence of a significant Russian propaganda troll operation around that time is well-documented by independent sources. This doesn't require a highly sophisticated operation, merely an understanding of some talking points that can plant doubt into the minds of Americans—things like "if Bernie loses the primary, we should vote Trump/sit out in the general", or, more insidiously, "voting is meaningless; the two parties are the same". It's certainly true that it's dangerous to believe Russia has some kind of remote control that can make American politics do whatever they want, but it's also dangerous to believe that they have no effective propaganda arm. Edit to add: To be clear, I'm not trying to claim that Russian propaganda was the deciding factor in the 2016 election—merely that it was a factor, and discounting it is unhelpful.
hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
> some mix of liking the traditional values thing that Putin puts out, But this is so false! Russia is the opposite of conservative values. With its rampant alcoholism, record number of orphans and kids raised by single parents, AIDS and so on - the only "conservative value"/s is the prosecution of gay people - but I believe conservative Americans left that ship decades ago. There is literally nothing in Putin's regime worth imitating.

by cafard 4y ago

petertodd 4y ago

Ironically the false idea that Russia had so much control over US politics is itself pro-Russian propaganda that presents Russia as much more powerful than it actually is. The truth is Russia is a failing country with a crummy military whose main real power stems from being able to threaten the world with nuclear weapons. If not for that, the West probably would have sent troops to Ukraine in 2014 and the Russian invasion would have been quickly defeated.

danaris 4y ago
The recent effect Russia had on US politics was an ability to tip a crucial few (relatively speaking) on the fence to either support Trump or sit out entirely in 2016. The existence of a significant Russian propaganda troll operation around that time is well-documented by independent sources. This doesn't require a highly sophisticated operation, merely an understanding of some talking points that can plant doubt into the minds of Americans—things like "if Bernie loses the primary, we should vote Trump/sit out in the general", or, more insidiously, "voting is meaningless; the two parties are the same". It's certainly true that it's dangerous to believe Russia has some kind of remote control that can make American politics do whatever they want, but it's also dangerous to believe that they have no effective propaganda arm. Edit to add: To be clear, I'm not trying to claim that Russian propaganda was the deciding factor in the 2016 election—merely that it was a factor, and discounting it is unhelpful.

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago

> some mix of liking the traditional values thing that Putin puts out, But this is so false! Russia is the opposite of conservative values. With its rampant alcoholism, record number of orphans and kids raised by single parents, AIDS and so on - the only "conservative value"/s is the prosecution of gay people - but I believe conservative Americans left that ship decades ago. There is literally nothing in Putin's regime worth imitating.